Some Newbie Advice

[urbanhermit]

Hello All!

Long time reader, first time posting. I'm working with a local acoustic duo here in Fort Wayne, IN. Maybe I'm just not jaded enough yet, but these girls are really talented and very well could have a shot at going somewhere if they catch the right breaks...we did 11 pre-production demos last week (acoustic gtr/vx) and are going to begin working on their album starting in March. There are a few songs we want to actually "produce" so to speak, and there are some that will be kept acoustic...

I guess what I'm asking for here is maybe for some helpful ideas for production. They are pretty serious about trying to shop this album to indie and perhaps even major labels. I have zero experience working with labels and I'm sure there are probably a few things I can do as the producer/engineer to help make their album more marketable. I'll be using Reason 5 and PT 8 to make this album.

Thanks Everyone!

[rhythm ranch]

Perhaps you could post a couple of samples? It's tough to offer production suggestions without hearing them.

[Nick Sevilla]

Hello All!

Long time reader, first time posting. I'm working with a local acoustic duo here in Fort Wayne, IN. Maybe I'm just not jaded enough yet, but these girls are really talented and very well could have a shot at going somewhere if they catch the right breaks...we did 11 pre-production demos last week (acoustic gtr/vx) and are going to begin working on their album starting in March. There are a few songs we want to actually "produce" so to speak, and there are some that will be kept acoustic...

I guess what I'm asking for here is maybe for some helpful ideas for production. They are pretty serious about trying to shop this album to indie and perhaps even major labels. I have zero experience working with labels and I'm sure there are probably a few things I can do as the producer/engineer to help make their album more marketable. I'll be using Reason 5 and PT 8 to make this album.

Thanks Everyone!

All I can offer is this :
FOCUS the songs into a recognizable genre of music.
Cheers

[urbanhermit]

Here's a track that we are going to add production to...

http://www.adrive.com/public/ff0c1506d0 ... 31c73.html

Tegan and Sara are this band's biggest influence. I understand the basic concepts of being genre specific, and perhaps maybe I posted in the wrong board, but I know that there are thousands of demos that end up in record company trash cans basically every day. Ultimately I am wanting to know what me, the guy recording the album with humble means in the middle of nowhere, can do to make it stand out or perhaps even what NOT to do if you're trying to get this demo heard.

Thanks Everyone for the responses so far!!

[jgimbel]

Ultimately I am wanting to know what me, the guy recording the album with humble means in the middle of nowhere, can do to make it stand out or perhaps even what NOT to do if you're trying to get this demo heard.

As far as I can tell, that's pretty much what every other band is after too! Not sure how easily a formula will be found. Great songs with great arrangement and talented performers - that's the best formula I can think of. Having good quality recordings of the great songs with great arrangements performed by talented musicians wouldn't hurt.

[Gregg Juke]

What Jesse said, but if strong female vocals are the feature, record them well, don't let anything slide, try to get good performances with soul that you don't have to "fix."

As far as arrangement and hooks, try to find things (like intro. signature guitar lines) that could become secondary motifs, accentuating or setting-up the vocal melody, or little "mini-hooks" in their own right.

If you come up with a neat line to set-up the vocal, bring it back before or after the bridge, and then use it as a closer for the tune if possible. Experiment. Noodling around on guitar, keys, harmonica, or sax can give you some nice little melodic hooks that bring the arrangement together.

Also, if they've got good songs that are "almost" there, don't be afraid to work with them until they're great songs; whatever is needed-- a bridge, a double-chorus, an instrumental section, a modulation, or the aforementioned instrumental sweetening. Nice vocal harmonies never hurt anybody, either.

GJ

[Gregg Juke]

Some non-production (but still very important) advice that I almost forgot:

If you really think these girls have that kind of potential (even if you don't), get your deal inked. Get it all in writing, especially if this is a spec deal that you are floating the time/cash for in exchange for a "piece" of whatever may come. If this is a development deal, and you are contributing production and arrangments, then perhaps some song-writing credit is in order.

Properly worded contracts and/or letters of intent are your friends.

GJ

[lionaudio]

I may be alone in this, but I think producing is the only part of what we do that can't be taught. Producers tend to hear the skeleton of a song and immediately know how to improve it, either with arrangement, changing lyrics, melody, instrumentation, or all of the above. Producers tend to be alot more hard headed, and self-assured about how they think a song should sound. This can't really be taught. It can be practiced. I'm not saying don't produce, or that you don't know what you're doing. What I'm saying is don't second guess yourself if you want to produce. If you're the producer, it's your job to steer the ship. Everyone on the ship is depending on you. That means that even in the times where you really aren't sure if you're making the right decision, you should keep your crew under the impression that you know exactly where you're going at all times. Otherwise, sessions fall apart, artists lose faith in themselves, engineers get frustrated, and the whole process can turn from something that is supposed to be enjoyable into something that is very stressful for everyone

[DangerousMusic]

There is the old saying in the business that you can have it Fast, Cheap, or Good, but never all 3. So in this case you want it to be good (duh). Check. I am assuming it's cheap, being that these girls do not have a major label to back them, and you used the term "humble means."

So, that being said, focus on the fact that if it is going to be done right, you need to take your time. If you think these girls really could go somewhere, make them play the songs 100 times if they have to to get the right performance captured.

If they don't have the money to pay you to take the song 100 times, then get a few good takes and spend some of your own free time editing takes together until you've got it all right.

But most importantly, pay attention to what they are trying to express with their music/lyrics and build everything around that sense of expression. You think they're good right? Ask yourself what it is that makes you like them, and accentuate that.

[audiopace]

Several posts on this subject have touched on the key element to making a great record. It starts with the song. You can polish a mediocre song all day and it still won't get heard (unless by other engineers admiring your recording).

Your job is to capture the song. Turn on the machines and start recording. That's all you have to do. When the chill bumps start appearing, you'll know you have something. Then take it to someone else and see if they get chill bumps. (In the case of a groovy tune - see you get neck factor) If you pass that test, you are ready to pitch it. If your high profile listener makes it past the first chorus, you might be on your way to picking out your Cadillac.

Disclaimer: all of the above assumes that they can sing in tune and have voices like angels.

All the Best

[frans_13]

Try some preproduction, before they hit your studio, work with them at their rehearsals, have them try to find the right tempo for each song, not to slave to a click, but to see which bpm has the right feel for each song. Find the tempo they play now, try one or two faster or slower, maybe even slow down a fast song and vice versa. It doesn't mean you have to change anything for changes sake, but to make sure it's all as good as can be. Then have them try to play the songs in other keys. Just to see how it sounds or how their vocal ranges cope with it.

Have them rehearse until the can play their stuff without any thinking at all, lyrics without sheets. So they can concentrate on their performance. Thinking while playing is much too distracting.

[witchfeet]

This is coming from maybe another perspective because I'm more a musician and less a recording engineer/producer, but in my opinion a good song is a good song no matter how it's recorded. I'd say just try to capture what they do well, because at the end of the day, that's who they are as artists. Offer your input when you feel it's needed, but if it's working as is, leave it that way.

Also, tell them to meet as many people as possible, because from my 15 or so years experience playing music, bands and musicians tend to get signed more by who they know, not necessarily how good they are. Hate to sound like jaded or whatever, but this is just the reality of the situation. Also tell them to move to a big city with a healthy music scene. The relationships and connections they will make are really what will make all the difference in their "success".

I wish you the best of luck!