85db volume during mixing? True or False?

[spencerwalters]

I've been hearing in multiple places that you should have the volume at 85db when you mix. I used my decibel meter to see how loud 85db is exactly. It seemed pretty quiet actually. Normally when I mix I have it somewhere around 110db.

How much does the volume of your speakers actually affect the ease of the mix?

[JGriffin]

To my understanding, this is more of a convention in film than in music.

[Wilson]

Your hearing must be pretty shot if you feel 85 dbs is pretty quiet, but that's to be expected if you mix at 110 for long periods of time.

The ear's sensitivity to audio frequencies is extremely dependent upon loudness. At around 85 dbs the human ear exhibits the most even sensitivity. The following link may be useful

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hb ... ud.html#c1

[Wlouch]

I mix at like 20-30dBSPL over ambient noise quite a lot, then shove it up to 85dBSPL or so to check the low end, make adjustments and then put it back down to like maybe 40dBSPL. You get a much better balance that way.

Its not just film, mix engineers may check their mixes there, also mastering uses this Fletcher-Munson curve "sweet spot".

[niccolo gallio]

We have to go way up in the SPL scale for our hearing to be "flat", even higher than the OP's mixing levels.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour
85dB is just a good compromise to save our hearing and still have a reasonably "flat" perception. But the use of a standard level is useful when both the producer and the consumer are listening to the material at the same loudness, as in movie theaters that adhere to the SMPTE standards, we could also use a 65dB reference or any other arbitrary value, as long as everyone is listening to the material at the same level. With music everything changes because everyone is free to listen at the level she/he chooses.
If all the home music reproduction systems would be calibrated to the same standard level (i.e. having a "0" mark on the volume knob where they reproduce a standardized tone at the standardized level) and all the mixing/mastering engineers agreed to use that listening standard level, then something similar could be achieved with music.
There's a lot of stuff out there on the 85(was 83)dB reference.
This page is a very good starting point:
http://www.digido.com/level-practices-p ... ystem.html

One important point is this:

Improved measurement accuracy if narrow-band pink noise is used
There are many sources of inaccuracy when determining monitor gain when using pink noise. Using wideband (20-20 kHz) pink noise and a simple RMS meter can result in low frequency errors due to standing waves in the room, high frequency errors due to off-axis response of the microphone, and variations in filter characteristics of inexpensive sound level meters. For the most accurate measurement, use narrow-band pink noise limited 500-2kHz, whose RMS level is -20 dBFS. This noise will read the same level on SPL meters with flat response, A weighting, or C weighting, eliminating several variables.

For even more accuracy, a spectrum analyzer can be used to make the critical 1/3 octave bands equal and reading ~68 dB SPL, yet totalling the specified 83 dB SPL.

The weighting used for the SPL measurement has a great impact with the calibration, hence the perceived levels.

I kind of like the idea of a standardized metering practice for recorded music.

To me, setting my monitoring system to 85dB results in very high spl levels if I listen to modern mastered stuff, I must remember to turn down the volume if I want to avoid damaging my speakers..

[vvv]

FWIW, I try to use an average of 82dB when I'm mixing my stuff, all of the time.

It may not be accurate as listed above, but I think the consistency in levels helps for more consistent results, and my ears don't hurt even after a full day of it.

Well, mebbe a little bit ...

[farview]

Check out the osha noise level chart. http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp ... &p_id=9736

This is the amount of time an employer can legally expose you to a certain volume level to avoid damage to your hearing.

At 110db spl, the time is only 1/2 hour.


Most clubs around here, including House of Blues want their shows no louder than 104db spl. 110 is almost twice as loud. You will break your ears sooner rather than later at that level.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

yeah, spencerwalker, not to get all Dad on you, but i'm pretty sure i couldn't even be in the same room with music at 110db. 85db to me is pretty cranking loud. i have the level between 80-85 when mastering, i'll spend some time mixing with it about that loud, and a lot of time mixing with it way quieter, like 60. mixing really quiet isn't good for eqing/getting sounds, but it's really good for sorting out the balance.

anyway i would say learn to adjust to 85 and lower, there's just no way you can listen to 110db all day for years on end.

[Nick Sevilla]

I've been hearing in multiple places that you should have the volume at 85db when you mix. I used my decibel meter to see how loud 85db is exactly. It seemed pretty quiet actually. Normally when I mix I have it somewhere around 110db.

How much does the volume of your speakers actually affect the ease of the mix?

I hope you can still hear a few years from now...

[CurtZHP]

I recently finished reading "Mastering Audio" by Bob Katz. In it, he spends a considerable amount of ink on making the case for always monitoring in the neighborhood of 85dB (I believe he suggests 83dB).

Not to hijack the thread, but it's a great book. Not a chapter went by where I didn't learn something new; and I've been at this for twenty years.

[The Real MC]

A good mix should sound good at ANY dB level, whether it is 85dB or 40dB. I've heard plenty of mixes that were awful because they were "mastered" at 85dB. Your ears fatique quicker at that level and you can't make rational mix judgements.

After I finish a mix, my acid test is the car radio. I listen at low volume as well as high volume. There's been many times that has sent me back for a remix as it is a real education.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

I've heard plenty of mixes that were awful because they were "mastered" at 85dB.

uuuhhhhh....what?

if the mixes sounded bad, it was because either the mixer or the masterer made bad decisions, not because they were listening at 85db.

you need to have the level fairly loudish when mastering otherwise you'll tend to eq it too bright.

[Gregg Juke]

I think it was more comon to monitor at concert volume back in the days of large studio control rooms, wall-mounted or soffet-mounted Urei's, that sort of thing. Or maybe it was just that way for old rockers ...

I think that near-field monitoring changes the equation considerably, and yeah, 110 dB means you're going to be toasted pdq. If you're mixing with someone else in the room, you'll probably be getting into a lot of "WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE BASS?!?!?! HOW ABOUT THOSE GUITARS?!?!?!" "SOUNDS GREAT!" "WHAT? IT'S ALREADY 8:00???

I'm not sure that's the optimal mixing environment.

GJ

[drumsound]

yeah, spencerwalker, not to get all Dad on you, but i'm pretty sure i couldn't even be in the same room with music at 110db. 85db to me is pretty cranking loud. i have the level between 80-85 when mastering, i'll spend some time mixing with it about that loud, and a lot of time mixing with it way quieter, like 60. mixing really quiet isn't good for eqing/getting sounds, but it's really good for sorting out the balance.

anyway i would say learn to adjust to 85 and lower, there's just no way you can listen to 110db all day for years on end.

I was gonna type almost this exact response.

[Snarl 12/8]

I tried mixing at 85db once. Those were the last mixes I actually got a compliment on. Now that I think about it. I didn't use a meter or anything. I went by "a level where you have raise your voice a bit to talk over it." Talking to myself, of course. I thought they were a little dark and bass heavy when I heard them back on my upstairs computer speakers. But I guess they translated for others.

How do you guys monitor/mix stuff that you've just recorded? After I lay down a drum groove and then I go to mix it I can't really tell what the fuck I'm hearing. I don't have perspective on the groove and my ears are usually ringing or dead feeling from my damn Ludwig Supraphonic sitting in my crotch. That thing can go to eleven.