Recording guitars with split to "effects only" amp

[Recycled_Brains]

For example... Using the 2 outputs of a Memory Man or Tape Echo to send the dry guitar to one amp, and the 100% wet delay output to another amp. It's not something I've tried, but now that I own a Deluxe Memory Man and have regular access to a Fulltone Tube Tape Echo, I've thought about trying it out. The DMM has a "direct" out and an "effect" out. The TTE has stereo modes that allow for different setups btwn. a pair of amps (wet to one amp, dry to another, little of both to each, more wet to one than the other, etc.).

Is this common practice? Any benefits, or drawbacks? Fun tips and tricks to try? I imagine one benefit being that you can do more with blending and panning of the effected signal at mixdown, but I also imagine it changes the way the delay reacts and interacts with the overall sound in the room. It seems like one of those techniques that I have heard on a bunch of recordings, but could never quite confirm.

I'm listening to Dead Meadow right now, and one track def. sounds like the guitar reverb is on its own track, and panned hard away from the dry guitar... sounds really cool.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

make sure both amps are plugged into the same circuit. a buzzy hum nightmare awaits if they're not.

going to attempt some dual-amp reamping this afternoon asamatterofact.

[fuzz]

Quite possible that the recording has the effects added post and panned. I always pan a verb (or more often) delay to the opposite speaker on a gtr. Its almost all L R C, but this is fairly common in any take on placement.

Effects like chorus are a different story. Check out EVH live rig for ways to manipulate multiple gtr spk setups. Ever see that photo of SRVs studio setup?

[farview]

A lot of guitar players do this. The first that comes to mind is Steve Morse. I don't know what he does in the studio, but that's how he does it live. The point is so that the FOH guy can blend the effect with the dry signal himself so it sounds right in the room mix.

I believe the guitar player from Dream Theater does the same thing. Both of them have horribly complicated guitar rigs with tons of rack gear and a sophisticated switching system to create the hundreds of different tones and effects that they use.

[teleharmonium]

Wet-dry guitar rigs are a somewhat well established practice. It goes back to the early 60s when amps like the Ampeg B12-X and Super Echo Twin or the Echo Jet as an add on reverb amp for another non reverb amp, provided separate amps and speakers for the wet and dry. There are some Guild amps and at least one more recent boutique builder that have used the same so called "speaker driven" reverb configuration, which typically involves a smaller speaker and amp for the wet signal. The Hammond M-100 series organs (and probably others) use the same type of arrangement.

The advantage of using it for recording is that you have the wet sound as the player would normally attain it with their effects, mixable to taste, and if it sucks you can always not use it in the mix and apply effects to the dry amp instead.

There's something to be said for doing it live although I have rarely gone to the trouble myself; if I use a second amp, it's usually a smaller amp that I bring in for solos. For a more effect oriented player who normally has their amps miked through the PA, it makes perfect sense. It would be particularly logical for a player that uses a looper.

[joninc]

i remember reading that coldplay did that on parachutes - it's really cool to be able to pan the effects separate from the dry signal.

i have a radial BIG SHOT aby pedal that i use a lot for stuff like this - it has a ground switch and a phase reverse which often comes in handy when running 2 amps.

[vivalastblues]

when i saw dead meadow, he did have his signal split between i think a twin reverb and some orange stack. sounded awesome having the two different sounds coming out, the twin was really clean and the orange overdriven.

[roygbiv]

yup, I know Brian May (Queen) does/did the separate effect amp, and I'm pretty sure the Edge does too.

I've tried it a few times, it is extremely cool. The main problem I found was the sound gets so "huge" that everybody in the band tells you to turn down, and thus you lose a lot of the cool effect.

I never thought about the benefit for the micing/PA use, that makes a lot of sense - let's the guitar player get whatever sound he wants onstage, but the FOH guy running the board can dial back the echo if its getting too muddy up front. Brilliant.

I jess love this board, learn a new thing evry few days it seems.

[frans_13]

Get a splitter, like the LittleLabs PCP distro or the palmer
http://www.palmer-germany.com/85-1-pga03.html
which have a transformer split (no hum! no trouble!). Make sure the signal hits both mics at exactly the same time, so you dont run into phase trouble.

Now you can run one amp clean, the other in crunch, or whatever you want. Also a nice ace up your sleeve if the player insists on a shitty amp which you'd rather throw out the door, two stories down to see it smash on the parking space. (don't ask...) split the signal, let them have their turd-amp, put up one of your good amps, record both, all good. If you want to go crazy you can split the guitar to three or more amps.

[jgimbel]

Or the Pigtronix Keymaster - http://www.pigtronix.com/products08/keymaster.html

Talk about a versatile piece of gear, that'll do splitter and a hell of a lot more, and great for live and in the studio. I'm still dying to get my hands on one of those.

[studiodog]

would a rack mount mixer work to spit the signal?

[frans_13]

You can use everything... as long as it's transformer isolated. Anyway, give it a try. If there's hum you know you need a transformer.