Recording Electric Bass Questions

[song-writer]

I was wondering about a couple of things, as follows:

1.I am aware that there are distortion devices for electric bass. I guess you could use any guitar pedal, such as an Ibanez Tube Screamer, MXR Distortion Plus, or any of the many other pedals available, as well as any bass specific device. What I am curious about, however, is how many bass players actually do employ distortion ? especially in recording, as well as playing live. It seems to me in my recordings or playing live, that there is already enough distortion if the guitar player is employing it and adding bass would be overkill and maybe even muddy up things. Maybe it is okay if the bass is the only instrument doing it? As I am mostly concerned about recording, is it generally a good idea to stay away from recording electric bass with distortion?

2.How do you get a very very very deep bass sound on a recording? I have a Fender P Bass going through a Chandler Germanium Mic Pre plugged directly in employing the DI setting. From there its through a dbx 160 compressor/limiter and into my recorder. The bass on my recordings sounds good and is pretty acceptable, but it would be nice to be able to go deeper, as I hear on recordings of my favorite bands. During tracking, I shelf EQ at +2dB at 60Hz and go parametric with -3dB at 300 Hz with a Q of 1. Then during mixdown, I go parametric with + 5dB at 2K with a Q of 0.5. I work by myself, recording one track at a time to get a full band sound. Additionally, the strings I use are pretty much standard gauge, so I am wondering if moving up to the heaviest gauge available might help, as well. Also, I know that some people use a direct box for bass, so I am wondering if there is any really significant difference than going into the DI input of a mic pre such as my Chandler? And if a direct box is a better solution, I see that companies like Radial make both active and passive boxes. That begs the question as to which is better, active or passive?

[kslight]

1. Plenty of bassists use overdrive and distortion, even if it is subtle. It brings out harmonic content which makes the bass cut through the mix more, which is the same reason I typically record bass through an amp. While you can use guitar pedals many suck tons of low end out... I use guitar pedals for bass but I modified them for an extended bottom.

2. Many variables at play here. I like to use medium or heavy flatwound strings on bass, those help bring out the fundamental and soften the string noise. How the bass is tuned is also a variable...but even standard tuning should have some bottom to it... How it is played...finger picking has less attack, using a plektrum has more... The relationship between the bass and other low instruments will effect how well the fundamental is heard...what does it sound like soloed? Might high pass filter the guitars, keys, drums...to accommodate.

[farview]

I suppose the distortion on bass thing tends to be a genre thing. But I would suggest going to youtube and searching for 'isolated bass'. You will find tons of bass tracks from famous songs and you will probably be suprised how many of them are distorted, and how much they are distorted.


You could certainly add more the 2db of 60hz, go nuts and try 9db. You have to EQ until you get the sound you want. Mind you, you will probably have to balance it with some 800hz as well as the 2-3k. It will also help to put a compressor after the EQ to smooth out some of the dynamics that radical EQ will introduce.

[fuzz]

I use a Boss Metal Zone in front our B15 when wanting a sort of pushed SVT sound at reasonable levels. I have the pedal on with no eq, the gain all the way down and level set to taste. The crunchier sounds on an electric bass can help me sit it in a mix later. I've noticed over time that e. bass on rock records is actually super bright. Actual fuzz bass can be anything from a muff to some distorted akai sampler. Just be sure to take a DI when tracking in case the sound doesn't work later down the road post bass tracking day.

A "deep" sound to me would probably involve a speaker and/or amp

[Nick Sevilla]

I was wondering about a couple of things, as follows:

1.I am aware that there are distortion devices for electric bass. I guess you could use any guitar pedal, such as an Ibanez Tube Screamer, MXR Distortion Plus, or any of the many other pedals available, as well as any bass specific device. What I am curious about, however, is how many bass players actually do employ distortion ? especially in recording, as well as playing live. It seems to me in my recordings or playing live, that there is already enough distortion if the guitar player is employing it and adding bass would be overkill and maybe even muddy up things. Maybe it is okay if the bass is the only instrument doing it? As I am mostly concerned about recording, is it generally a good idea to stay away from recording electric bass with distortion?

Hi,
My favorite recording chain for electric bass is:
Bass ---> Neve 1272 DI ---> UA LA2A compressor, set to compress, not limit.

The Neve 1272 is for setting the overall level, and the LA2A is for taming a few notes here and there that tend to be higher level than the other ones. Mind oyu, I only compress about 1-3 dB tops. then the gain of the LA2A is the "final" recording lelel setting.

Usually problems of "not enough bass" is simply because the bass is not loud enough in the mix. Turn up the bass track FIRST in the mix, before trying anything else. that usually solves the issue.

2.How do you get a very very very deep bass sound on a recording? I have a Fender P Bass going through a Chandler Germanium Mic Pre plugged directly in employing the DI setting. From there its through a dbx 160 compressor/limiter and into my recorder. The bass on my recordings sounds good and is pretty acceptable, but it would be nice to be able to go deeper, as I hear on recordings of my favorite bands. During tracking, I shelf EQ at +2dB at 60Hz and go parametric with -3dB at 300 Hz with a Q of 1. Then during mixdown, I go parametric with + 5dB at 2K with a Q of 0.5. I work by myself, recording one track at a time to get a full band sound. Additionally, the strings I use are pretty much standard gauge, so I am wondering if moving up to the heaviest gauge available might help, as well. Also, I know that some people use a direct box for bass, so I am wondering if there is any really significant difference than going into the DI input of a mic pre such as my Chandler? And if a direct box is a better solution, I see that companies like Radial make both active and passive boxes. That begs the question as to which is better, active or passive?

In order to get a Very Deep Bass recorded, you need to know what the lowest frequency will be recorded, ie how low can the bass go. If yo are looking to get lower than the bass you have can play, then you need to either lower the tuning, or use a different bass.

After the instrument, you need to have a good preamp, which you seem to have... just make sure the Chandler CAN pass low enough frequencies. You can do this with passing a pink noise through the device, and seeing and hearing what happens when you insert a lopass filter to that signal. How much low end is actually there? Is there a mystery "eq" curve that is lowering the bass? Know your recording equipment.

Finally, if you are going into a digital converter, you need to make sure it can also record low frequencies properly. A lot of "prosumer" devices claim they can, but they do not do it properly. Again, test your converter with some low frequencies, and find out what it can and cannot do.

As far as what EQ etc you use after the recording is done, well if you don't havy any really low end coming from the bass, all you will be increasing when you reach for that 60 Hz shelf, will be ambient noise (if using a microphone) or rumble that is getting picked up by the pickups, and not actual notes.

Cheers

[vvv]

I note the OP didn't mention compression?

[jgimbel]

I note the OP didn't mention compression?

True. When I was first working with getting sounds I noticed that some parts of the bassline had perfect low end, and others didn't. This is, of course, because different notes are different frequencies. Starting to use compression solved this. Bass seems to be able to take quite a bit of compression before sounding overly compressed in a mix.

I totally agree about trying just turning it up. One might think "if my bass sounds lacking in low end and I turn it up, won't it have way too much high end?". In my experience bass can also handle having a lot of treble in the mix without sounding like the highs are boosted. I often find myself raising the high end of the treble to the point where when the track is solo'd it sounds really unnatural, but then in the mix that's what it took to make it sound natural with everything else going. Most other instruments I'm often trying to not do all that much of them so they continue to sound natural, but I find with bass I'm often using relatively heavy-handed compression and more EQ than I use on most sources. I do great sounds I'm really happy with, for all instruments, at the mic, but while drums and guitar seem to be able to stay somewhat as-is and work in the mix, bass is often a matter of fitting it in to the rest of the mix even after starting with a great sound.

[lionaudio]

for massive bass, and grit, try layering a synth track under the bass. The kind that makes you feel all funny on the inside when it's loud. No one said you can't trick everyone into thinking it's only a bass guitar. Also, if you don't want to go that route, when using distortion for bass, many of us do that with two tracks, or live, with two amps. I always keep a clean bass track going under the distorted bass so that I don't have to worry about losing my low end. You just treat the distorted channel like it's a guitar panned center. Just make sure your two tracks aren't out of phase. Zoom in on the waves and make sure the peaks are in happening at the same time. If they aren't, nudge one and line them up

[frans_13]

For a deep bass tone...the right instrument helps a lot. A stingray "reaches deeper" than a Fender jazz or a precision. If it's not there, because of the instrument, sometimes ridiculous ammounts of eq will be needed. Just don't tell anybody.

So this is how I go about recording bass, not to say I'm right, but to give you choices. I have a SWR interstellar overdrive, which was developed as a bass overdrive, but is a lot more than that. Preamp with balanced and unbalanced output, then an eq, a D.I., the usual aural enhancer from SWR, distortion from 2xEL84 driving a 5 watts poweramp, a balanced and unbalanced output after the poweramp AND you can mix clean/overdrive AND phase reverse the overdrive signal. Phew! So I grab a signal from the poweramp output and record it, grab the signal from the preamp and send it to my Hiwatt DR102, into a 15" cab, into the mic, preamp, A/D.
Now I got the choice between using both (time align!) or using, say, the SWR for clean lows and the amp/mic for crunch. Or the other way round. Or any other tricks you come up with. That said, there isn't much equipment that can beat the distortion of hitting the Hiwatt poweramp stage for bass. With the cab and a mic I have to depend on how low the cab can go, with the SWR that's not an issue.

It's not that I want to "keep options" with recording two differents signals, because that's not my thing, I want to make decisions to concentrate. But between two signals, of which I use just one most of the time, you have it covered, even changing tone between verse and chorus, if needed.

[T-rex]

Has anyone mentioned mic the amp? Reamp your DI track whenever you have time where you can make a little noise and mic the amp. It doesn't have to be super loud but that will be a massive help. Tone out the amp so that it beefs up the low end, if thats what you need.

If you don't want to or can't reamp, then duplicate the bass track. Michael Brauer mentioned one time that if the bass wasn't loud enough he would just mult it over to another track on the console. Super simple, I never thought about it but when everything sounds great but you just aren't pushing enough air, it really does work. Maybe better on a console than in the box, I don't know.

Take a duplicate track and distort it. Solo'd it may sound weird, but you would be amazed how much distortion you can get away with, within the mix next to a normal bass track - and you won't even notice it. In the mix you hear the bass cut through but still sound like bass, you solo it and you think, my god that is a fuzz machine.

[BrontoSoreAss]

http://www.refusesoftware.com/products/feature/2

Deeep bass. A little goes a long way. I also always mic the amp - DI never sounds right to me, especially if I want a sound thats a little (or very) overdriven....I'm also a hack, so assume I'm wrong

[joninc]

The bass on my recordings sounds good and is pretty acceptable, but it would be nice to be able to go deeper, as I hear on recordings of my favorite bands.

like what for example?

a lot of mix guys like to add a subharmonic to fatten the bass - waves Rbass - the lowender - even the MDA one works well at times. or like an octaver that you can blend to taste just to go real LOW.

use the THICK switch on the germ too!

also - i often find an amp helps give the bass more definition, midrange etc. and the DI gives the deeper lows and higher highs.

[jgimbel]

also - i often find an amp helps give the bass more definition, midrange etc. and the DI gives the deeper lows and higher highs.

+1. The DI always seems more consistent to me low end-wise, but sounds sterile as is. Amp + DI for me too, amp for mojo, for drive and/or room sound if it needs it, DI for a bit more clarity up top and in the low end.

[song-writer]

Thanks, much everyone that responded. That was a lot of very helpful information.

John

[suppositron]

The bass guitar itself does make a huge difference. I'm recording a band right now and the bass player plays a babinga (type of wood) warwick. That thing has crazy low end. I'm miking his cab and taking a DI off the head. That's the first time I actually liked the way a di sounded. But, shit, I'm having to blend in an RE20 on one of his 10" speakers cause there's just too damn much of it! It's not his eq, either. He let me set that the way I wanted it.