Bottom snare mic as a room mic, and other small room tricks.

Ryan Silva · Post by **Ryan Silva** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:29 am

It seems that so many drums recordings I get nowadays, whether they are mine or not, have pitiful sounding room mics tracks.

I bet like half the time I throw up room mics on drums they don?t get used, or I chose not to mix with the room tracks I?m given.

This is probably due to studios shrinking in size, providing a poorer environment to capture long reflections, resulting in washy small room reflections. (like I said, I too battle this when tracking)

In this case, the mother of invention has provided a lot of creativity out there. Like the room mics on the floor, a ?heart? mic placed above the kick drum, underheads, etc.

My favorite trick lately is side chaining the bottom snare mic, and processing the hell out of the tail; whether with a comp, or my personal favorite, Transient Designer.

How are you guys fairing lately?

Bro Shark · Post by **Bro Shark** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:21 am

Been recording myself playing drums in a medium-sized (maybe 15x25) rehearsal space with concrete floor, carpeted walls and 9' ceilings and it's pissing me right the fuck off. Thanks.

ott0bot · Post by **ott0bot** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:36 am

I think room mics in smaller spaces still work...but take a little more processing. Adding delay, smashing them, spring reverb, parallel compression, extreme eq, reamping, etc. I heard a suggestion from joel about getting better room sound by throwing up a cymbal or a sheet of metal on the far side of the room, and facing a mic at it for a sort of natural plate sound. I gotta try that.

Specifically regarding the bottom stnare mic...the Sunny Day Real Estate song "Days are Golden" on the "How it Feels..." album has a rad outro with a solo'd and crushed phasey bottom snare mic. Not much of a room mic...pretty much just the snares rattling and a bit of a feint kick sound. Musta been a super cardiod dynamic or something.

Also, I record drums in my living room....so you both can shut it.

Ryan Silva · Post by **Ryan Silva** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:44 am

ott0bot wrote:I think room mics in smaller spaces still work...but take a little more processing. Adding delay, smashing them, spring reverb, parallel compression, extreme eq, reamping, etc. I heard a suggestion from joel about getting better room sound by throwing up a cymbal or a sheet of metal on the far side of the room, and facing a mic at it for a sort of natural plate sound. I gotta try that.

Specifically regarding the bottom stnare mic...the Sunny Day Real Estate song "Days are Golden" on the "How it Feels..." album has a rad outro with a solo'd and crushed phasey bottom snare mic. Not much of a room mic...pretty much just the snares rattling and a bit of a feint kick sound. Musta been a super cardiod dynamic or something.

Also, I record drums in my living room....so you both can shut it.

MoreSpaceEcho · Post by **MoreSpaceEcho** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:02 pm

had a session recently where we tracked the drums in my control room, which isn't exactly small (17x21x13), but compared to the vast reverb wash that is my live room, it yields a much closer, tighter sound. which is what this record was calling for.

anyway, i still had good luck with my default omnis on the floor a few feet in front of the kit. also had interesting results putting the omnis up against the walls BEHIND my 703 panels. that sound was obviously a lot more diffuse than the mics on the floor sound.

i've done the omnis on the floor with a panel of 703 in front of them, that worked well too. more reverb/less direct sound from the kit that way.

reamping the snare works great. i usually have a gate/expander on the send to the speaker.

if you only have a small, crappy room to work in maybe try cardioids right up against the walls, facing away from the kit. my thinking being the cardioids will pick up less of the room sound, but you'll still be getting the reflections and some sustain.

the most common problem i've found with room mic tracks recorded elsewhere is just way too much treble. get those mics down LOOOOOOOWWWWWW. they'll still pick up the cymbals just fine.

Bro Shark · Post by **Bro Shark** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:51 pm

MSE -- great post. And thanks Ryan for starting the thread. I love hearing peoples' ideas about stuff like this. Very helpful.

palinilap · Post by **palinilap** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:02 pm

I record drums in this room, which is relatively small. Lately I've been mounting a boom stand actually on that piano with the top down, and use an Avenson STO-2 pointed straight up at the ceiling approx. 6-7' from the floor going into a Sytek pre.

While mixing I'll delay that mic (because it's fairly close to the kit, I go as far as 120 samples) and have been digging the PSP Oldtimer as a room smasher.

MoreSpaceEcho · Post by **MoreSpaceEcho** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:34 pm

couple other thoughts:

don't hit 'em that hard. wailing on drums in a big room is great, it gets the room going and is the sound you want. wailing on them in a small room just overwhelms it. drums played at conversational volume can sound totally huge in a mix.

leave the snare ringier than you might otherwise. in the big room i've been tending towards a drier snare, because the reverb fills it out nicely, and too much ring can be kind of overbearing. can occasionally be amazing though if the snare's tuned really perfectly for the song. anyway in a smaller room you're not going to have the reverb lengthening the snare so the ring can work well instead.

palinilap · Post by **palinilap** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:53 pm

MoreSpaceEcho wrote:don't hit 'em that hard. wailing on drums in a big room is great, it gets the room going and is the sound you want. wailing on them in a small room just overwhelms it. drums played at conversational volume can sound totally huge in a mix.

Totally agree. Cymbals especially can sound really nasty in a small room. My drumming technique for recording and playing shows has evolved into two different beasts, whereas I'm approaching the cymbals and kick more delicately while recording. The snare and toms don't seem to mind the small room as much though

vvv · Post by **vvv** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:35 am

I record drums inna basement. Lately I put the room in omni or figure-8 about 25' away from the kit, right in front of an open door to a 10'x10' bathroom (tiled floor and walls, glass shower door).

It makes for a wetter sound, yep.

MoreSpaceEcho · Post by **MoreSpaceEcho** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:17 am

pretty nice lookin basement there. but c'mon, you gotta put the ambient mic IN the tub.

Ryan Silva · Post by **Ryan Silva** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:59 pm

Did you block out the drummer's eyes?

Oh, I get it, he didn't want to be scene any where near that Samson mic.

Oohhhh SNAP!

(I jest I've never actually heard that mic)

drumsound · Post by **drumsound** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:51 pm

I'm pretty lucky, drums love my room and my room loves drums. My 70% of the time room set up is 4050s in omni on straight stands at their lowest, about waist high, equal distance from the BD. But I've done a ton of things to get great room sounds.

Last night I had a live with audience in studio recording. 2 artists alternating sets. I taped my MC012s (again omni) on the ledge over the booth. They sounded fantastic for the performance and the applause and sing alongs sound GIANT!

lionaudio · Post by **lionaudio** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 8:49 pm

I have to record drums IN the bathtub

jgimbel · Post by **jgimbel** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:19 pm

My space is not what I'd call an ideal space to record in. Basement with low ceilings, but the ceiling is the floor joists from the above floor, with plastic sheeting stapled up so all the dust in this old house from the floor above doesn't fall in the space when people walk on the floor above. I've got 1/4 of the basement too, so I've got two walls (the corner of the basement), but the other two "walls" are two bookshelves on the short side, and a couch, dresser, and cement column on the other. Not ideal, though the lack of parallel walls stops bad reflections. It's on the dead side down here.

To get a bit more of a "live room" sound in here, I put up big wood panels on the long wall (which have guitar hangers on them too). The improvement was subtle, but there. One thing I do when I want big room sound though, since putting a FOK mic up doesn't sound much different here than an overhead, is put a mic or two (usually a 4050 in omni, or two SDCs) upstairs, directly above where the drums are. I get a really massive room sound that is very convincing to sound like I'm in a really nice sized room. And because the roominess is from the fact that the sound is passing through a floor and not purely distance, I never have to do any shifting in the time to compensate for a delay.

This weekend I had a band recording here but other folks were around, so I couldn't put a mic upstairs. I put a mic at the other end of the basement near the top of the stairs, by the basement door. That worked easily well. It took me a few years of getting less-than-desirable drum sounds before thinking to try room mics elsewhere in the house, and now it's the way to go when I need big drum sounds in my small space.

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Bottom snare mic as a room mic, and other small room tricks.

Bottom snare mic as a room mic, and other small room tricks.

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