King's-X Kick Drum Sound - Shure SM-91

akg414 · Post by **akg414** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:52 pm

Got an email from Michael Wagener, who did King's-X last album. He told me that he used an SM91 and a sub-kick to get their sound.

I just picked up one (SM91) and I have a sub kick. Was wondering what everybody's experience was with the SM91? Any trick to placing it, or any other info, tips, etc would be great.

THANKS!!

Nick Sevilla · Post by **Nick Sevilla** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:30 pm

bradjacob wrote:Got an email from Michael Wagener, who did King's-X last album. He told me that he used an SM91 and a sub-kick to get their sound.

I just picked up one (SM91) and I have a sub kick. Was wondering what everybody's experience was with the SM91? Any trick to placing it, or any other info, tips, etc would be great.

THANKS!!

Hi,

Why don't you ask Michael...

akg414 · Post by **akg414** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:48 pm

Nick Sevilla wrote:
bradjacob wrote:Got an email from Michael Wagener, who did King's-X last album. He told me that he used an SM91 and a sub-kick to get their sound.

I just picked up one (SM91) and I have a sub kick. Was wondering what everybody's experience was with the SM91? Any trick to placing it, or any other info, tips, etc would be great.

THANKS!!
Hi,

Why don't you ask Michael...

Because getting a response from a busy person of his caliber is a gift enough. That this forum is for - to get answers to questions. Not smart ass comments. Jeez....

Nick Sevilla · Post by **Nick Sevilla** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:11 pm

bradjacob wrote:
Nick Sevilla wrote:
bradjacob wrote:Got an email from Michael Wagener, who did King's-X last album. He told me that he used an SM91 and a sub-kick to get their sound.

I just picked up one (SM91) and I have a sub kick. Was wondering what everybody's experience was with the SM91? Any trick to placing it, or any other info, tips, etc would be great.

THANKS!!
Hi,
Why don't you ask Michael...
Because getting a response from a busy person of his caliber is a gift enough. That this forum is for - to get answers to questions. Not smart ass comments. Jeez....

Hi,
I did not mean my post as a smart ass comment... Jeez...
He might take a while, but why not?

akg414 · Post by **akg414** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:19 pm

Nick Sevilla wrote:
bradjacob wrote:
Nick Sevilla wrote:
bradjacob wrote:Got an email from Michael Wagener, who did King's-X last album. He told me that he used an SM91 and a sub-kick to get their sound.

I just picked up one (SM91) and I have a sub kick. Was wondering what everybody's experience was with the SM91? Any trick to placing it, or any other info, tips, etc would be great.

THANKS!!
Hi,
Why don't you ask Michael...
Because getting a response from a busy person of his caliber is a gift enough. That this forum is for - to get answers to questions. Not smart ass comments. Jeez....
Oh, ok...

Hi,
I did not mean my post as a smart ass comment... Jeez...
He might take a while, but why not?

MoreSpaceEcho · Post by **MoreSpaceEcho** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:14 pm

isn't the sm91 the one you just lay inside the drum?

Waltz Mastering · Post by **Waltz Mastering** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:34 pm

MoreSpaceEcho wrote:isn't the sm91 the one you just lay inside the drum?

Yes. I think they are the pzm's which can be laid on a pad or flat surface.

I did a few albums with Mike Mangini who had these permanently installed in his kicks.

I remember they were attacky sounding...hence the sub kicks...
I think I blended them with 421's which were out side the kick or in a tunnel or something.

sessionsatstudiom · Post by **sessionsatstudiom** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:55 pm

I have seen the SM 91 used on top of the muffling in the kick drum. Almost next to the batter head. Then another mic for the low frequencies of the drum.

Jerry Gaskill is a very good drummer. I love Kings X. Very nice guys. I was fortunate to meet them after a show once and talk with them about anything but music. Was a great time.

Good luck on the quest for the sound.

PS Michael Wagner is a very nice person and open about many things. He is definitely busy and was helpful to me with a few questions.

akg414 · Post by **akg414** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:51 am

Thanks guys, appreciate the info

gregovertone · Post by **gregovertone** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:26 am

i usually just put a small towel in the drum, and lay the 91 on top of it, 4" back from the beater head.

boid · Post by **boid** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:00 pm

my drummer loves it live (no feedback etc...) so when we started out he talked me into using it while tracking
but we don't play metal so i don't need that cutting click sound
and it was a nightmare mixing that kick cause you can't really get a
decent (non metal) sound with only the 91 imo.

but if i was doing metal it would be the first mic to use for attack

we usually put it on the muffling as someone already said
pretty near to the beater...

placement didn't seem to be as crucial as with dynamics or lcds which you move about 1/2" and you get a TOTALLY different sound

fcorl · Post by **fcorl** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:08 am

I'm a huge King's X fan and I'm a drummer who's been in a lot of different studios and have my own home studio as well. Are you talking Ogre Tones or XV? They are both Wagener... (right?), but have different kick sounds. Can you give us a specific song to check out for reference. Anyhow... I think having Jerry Gaskill behind the kit, that specific bass drum tuned by Jerry (or whoever), and recording in that specific drum room is probably going to have far more to do with (or at least as much as) that specific sound than what mic you put inside the bass drum.

It is so hard to recreate a drum sound in a different environment. A drum tuned a certain way will sound completely different in "Room A"; then you have to go and re-tune that drum to sound good in "Room B", then you close mic it and take a lot of the room out... it's a vicious cycle.. haha.

Did Wagener mention room mics? When I hear Jerry's newer drum sound... I hear room mics. I hear attack and smack in a medium sized room. I hear a pretty natural, raw drum sound... with level dynamics (That's Jerry solid playing).

If it's the "click" you are looking for, accompanied with a natural round bottom end. Try taking some of the muffling out, put a good drum head on the front (no mic hole) and throw an LDC out in front about 10"-12". Then throw a D112 (a click machine) on the batter side pointed at where the beater strikes the head. Try whatever else you like and see what happens...

Another thing to do to get that "click" sound for metal is to bring in a sample of a "Stick click" and lay it on the kick beats and mix appropriately. Don't like samples...? haha. Then record the drummer clicking his sticks to the bass drum beats.

akg414 · Post by **akg414** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:50 pm

Here is the link.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end ... ngs-x.html

All the drum info you can use.

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