Clapping, Snapping, and other body percussion.

wesley.wittich · Post by **wesley.wittich** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:58 am

Here's the scenario:
I'm a college audio student, and I'm recording a couple friends for experience/practice/fun. Super low budget (read: 'no budget')...just using the gear I already own (which doesn't totally suck) and recording in whatever spare rooms we can find (usually my apartment).

For one song, they are wanting to do clapping, snapping, and some other body percussion, since we don't have time/space/a person/the right mics to do full drums. The other night, one of the guys came over and recorded one full track of claps and a full track of snaps, and now I'm trying to figure out what to do with them. I also had him record a track of a bunch of different kinds of claps, so I have to option to pick the ones that sound good, layer them, and build a track however I want.

My biggest issue is how to make a bunch of claps sound the best together. Should I build one good track, then copy it and nudge a couple milliseconds and do that a few times to make it sound like a bunch of people clapping? Or should I make a good track and copy it several times and EQ them all differently? Any suggestions on songs I could listen to that have clapping or snapping as the main percussion? I don't have a large reference pool to draw from on this one, so I'm just not sure where to start...

Thanks in advance!

Also, the Claps were recorded with an NT1a through a Mackie Onyx 1640i into a MBP running PT9, if that makes any difference.

A.David.MacKinnon · Post by **A.David.MacKinnon** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:34 am

Single claps (or snaps) are a tricky thing to make work. I like to get at least 2 people clapping together. Three is even better. Duplicating the same track and nudging the copies a few frames always sounds like a single clap with some kind of delay effect.
When I have a solo clap track and need to make it work I'll often duplicate it and slide the duplicate along 4-8 beats (you can cut and paste from later in the song to fill in the beats you lose when shifting). If you need more just duplicate and repeat. The idea is to always have different claps happening together.
Other than that, low cutting and using a limiter can go a long way. Backing the mic up a few feet when tracking helps a bunch too.

kslight · Post by **kslight** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:41 am

Well if you have a bunch of claps I would open maybe four tracks and have the first 8 bars in one track, then take the next 8 bars and put them in the second track, etc... Then I would line them up pretty close unless you want it to sound really sloppy. Pan, level, EQ, and reverb to taste.

Or if you are into sampling you could take one clap and map it across the keyboard, then play chords of that sample wherever you want it.

Gregg Juke · Post by **Gregg Juke** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:50 am

>>>>Or if you are into sampling you could take one clap and map it across the keyboard, then play chords of that sample wherever you want it.<<<<

THAT is a great idea... If the notes aren't too far apart, or they will just start to sound out-of-time with each other.

BTW, sometimes sloppy is good. Depends on what you're going for. "Everybody must get Stoned?"

GJ

wesley.wittich · Post by **wesley.wittich** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:32 am

Thanks! I already tried the duplicate & nudge method, and it was an epic mess. Hurray for Command+Z! I did 8 different tracks and it just caused a bunch of phase problems and made the whole thing sound thinner than the original...

@ Dave - I feel like an idiot for not thinking of just duplicating it and then shifting it a beat or more to get different claps at the same time...I'd like to think of myself as a moderately intelligent person, but I sure dropped the ball on that one :/ Thanks!

I'll try the shifting by a few beats later today and see how it goes...It seems like doing that and then EQing the different tracks, etc. would make the most sense and be the simplest solution...

Once I get something solid down, I'll try posting a clip to see if you guys have any other suggestions.

weatherbox · Post by **weatherbox** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:54 am

Record more tracks of it. I usually go for three or four people per pass, and double it. Sometimes triple it, if everyone's got good rhythm and it needs to be really insane. Duplicating the track sounds like... duplicating the track. Which can be cool as a slapback effect, but if you want big claps, you want multiple good passes. It'll sound better and be faster than trying to edit something together.

Anthony Caruso · Post by **Anthony Caruso** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:55 pm

When I think of "the sound of claps", to me it needs that flammy, somewhat imprecise thing that duplicating and nudging/EQ/whatever won't get, as you experienced. It kind of extends the transient from a quick pop that gets lost easily to a longer thicker one and the room tone (if you have some) builds up and gives it more space and variation.

I really think the easiest way to do it is just record 'em, different takes on different tracks til you get the right thickness. Then you can work on the performance and arrangement the same way you would as if it were a drummer, maybe the chorus has an extra subdivision at the end of every other bar, maybe the first verse is less intense, maybe the bridge flips the beat. That shit could take you hours in the box but with a couple people in the room feeling the music the right path will be obvious (and fun!).

junomat · Post by **junomat** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:51 pm

I typically track 3 clappers 8 feet from a SM81 or SDC, but in reality, it could be any mic. I am not picky.

I do this twice, hard pan, and trigger one of them to an 808 clap (and offset by a few ms and center that.

That's generally what I do for a 2&4 kinda clap.

gavintheaudioengineer · Post by **gavintheaudioengineer** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:57 pm

there's an old thread about this somewhere on here- like third page from the end...

on the advice of that thread, I got great results using a c414 set to omni in a lively room, with 4 guys stood in a semi circle around 4-5ft away from the mic- one guy gets headphones and takes the musical cue- the rest get just the visual clue from him.
Tracking that twice helped thicken it up.

Gregg Juke · Post by **Gregg Juke** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:34 pm

Of course, "good clapping technique" will help; don't let them do that wimpy little half-hand-fingerslap stuff, unless that's what you really want (a tiny sound indistinguishable from a toothpick breaking).

Make sure they clap like manly men, with concave/cupped hands and an air-pocket between each hand for much better "tone."

Actually, the engineers to ask about this stuff would be the folks that record Flamenco music (something like The Gipsy Kings). Traditional Flamenco usually has quite a bit of polyrhythmic use of "las palmas."

GJ

drumsound · Post by **drumsound** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:01 pm

Gregg Juke wrote:Of course, "good clapping technique" will help; don't let them do that wimpy little half-hand-fingerslap stuff, unless that's what you really want (a tiny sound indistinguishable from a toothpick breaking).

Make sure they clap like manly men, with concave/cupped hands and an air-pocket between each hand for much better "tone."

Actually, the engineers to ask about this stuff would be the folks that record Flamenco music (something like The Gipsy Kings). Traditional Flamenco usually has quite a bit of polyrhythmic use of "las palmas."

GJ

Keeping with the technique theme, good clapping has one hand moving and one stable. This will help a lot in keeping the claps in time, or at least close to it. The brain needs to know where the target is to evaluate the time it will take to the stationary hand.

MoreSpaceEcho · Post by **MoreSpaceEcho** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:33 am

drumsound wrote: good clapping has one hand moving and one stable.

*claps*

hey you're right! i never thought about that. neat-o.

i put finger snaps on a tune once, had to do like 6 takes to make it sound like anything in the mix. it started to hurt around take 3.

ott0bot · Post by **ott0bot** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:22 pm

There was another forum post a week or so ago dicussing choir clapping, and they suggested slapping your thighs instead of clapping to make the clap sound a little more full bodied and less piercing. It does work quite well.

So does that stationary hand thingy...nice!

As stated....multiple people clapping and slapping does sound best, rather than overdubbing single claps.

Jay Reynolds · Post by **Jay Reynolds** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:23 pm

I got this idea from a thread here, and I don't remember who suggested this, so apologies for the lack of credit:

Set up some speakers close to the clapper. On each pass, play the preceding claps through the speaks. You will have to correct for distance from the mic eventually, but blended with the individual claps, it should help fill things out.

ott0bot · Post by **ott0bot** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:54 pm

^^smart^^

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Clapping, Snapping, and other body percussion.

Clapping, Snapping, and other body percussion.

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