New Studio Setup Analog and Digital workflow opinions

[witchfeet]

Hi guys. I'm slowly setting up a home studio in a fairly large room. About 370 sf with 9.5' ceilings and a wood floor. I'm going to be building some bass traps etc. in the next month or so and trying to get the room sounding good. I'll have to track and mix in the same room, but that's another topic...

I'm wondering if anyone has any advice on how you would utilize my setup. I'm not necessarily new to recording, but I'm definitely still learning.

Gear I have:
Otari MX5050 8 track reel
Tascam M312b 12 channel 4 bus mixer
Macbook with firewire port
Some outboard gear
A small unbalanced patch bay
Monitors, power amps, chords, mics, all that stuff

I also have a Digi001 over here but I'll be replacing that shortly with something a little less ancient, probably one of the Presonus options. I've yet to use the Otari but I'll eventually be utilizing it down the road when I have the room put together, and everything working well. The Otari is in excellent shape, heads look good but I have a lot of learning to do when it comes to the maintenance, but I think it'll be worth it.

So here was my plan:

1. Record 8 tracks on the Otari. Drums, guitars, bass, whatever, just fill up the tracks.

2. Dump the 8 tracks into the computer for overdubs, vocals, editing etc. hopefully arriving with a total of 12 tracks or less.

3. Run the tracks from interface into my mixer to mix out of the box and utilize outboard reverbs, compressors, etc.

4. Run final mix back into computer

I also want to use a patch bay for all my ins and outs, but I'll tackle that when it's time to really set it all up. That can get very confusing in and of itself

So, my question is, does this seem like a logical way to utilize my gear? Would you guys do it differently? Is it worth the effort? I'm shooting for recordings with character, not so much super high fidelity super pro style. I like a lot of lo-fi and mid-fi sounding punk, indie rock, garage, stuff like that.

I'd appreciate anyone's advice or input!

[kslight]

Maybe I'm just lazy, but I personally would either decide to track analog or digital from the get go, and track with whatever desired outboard gear, if you recorded analog then transfer to digital (there's an opportunity for a pass through outboard here as well) and do all my editing and mix in the box, any overdubs could also use the outboard as well. I could be wrong but I'm guessing you're on a budget, unless you had some really cool outboard I probably would not take the time to attempt to use it for mixing on the computer, but YMMV.

[witchfeet]

Thanks for the advice. I am for sure on a budget. I do plan to transfer to digital after the tape machine is full and doing my overdubs and editing in the computer. I really prefer to mix out of the box though. I'm able to do much better mixes utilizing physical faders and EQ. I will probably use some plugins but I like to use some unconventional effects like running vocals through overdrive pedals and analog delay pedals. I've found The EQ on the Tascam actually adds some nice flavor to the sounds. Plus I just like the act of making adjustments on a physical piece of gear. I use computers at work everyday, so getting away from them as much as possible when I'm doing something I enjoy is good for my mental state. haha.

I have been recording digital and mixing on my Tascam m312b already and I've been happy with the results. But since I have the Otari I'd like to throw it into the chain for the instruments to add some more character to my recordings.

[ashcat_lt]

Those old Tascams are awesome! Not anything close to clean or transparent or quiet, just all kinds of beautiful sounding grungey honky madness. Push the preamps a bit and it sounds a whole lot like RAWK.

While I personally would not go back to tape unless all the computers in the world were destroyed, I think it might be worth your while to stay analog until the final mix, at least for a while. If you love those old punk/indie/garage recordings this is the authentic real way to capture those sounds. All the constraints of 8-track tape will teach you invaluable lessons. For example:

You don't need a million tracks so that you can have all kinds of options at mix time. Make decisions while tracking. Submix the drums to a stereo pair. Find the right mix of miked amp and DI for the bass and track that. If you start to run out of tracks, bounce some down before adding more. It'll be frustrating at first because you'll find at some point down the road that your initial decision on (say) the drum mix was less than ideal for the final mix, but that's how we learn. (It's also how we accidentally come up with things that are so wrong they're right.)

You'll be forced to capture final performances the first time. Since it's far more difficult to record 18 different passes off the same instrument and comp it together measure by measure you'll learn to listen for and demand the right take every time. You'll also learn to use the punch-in/out functions on the tape machine, which is a skill unto itself and really brings the tape-op into an active role in the tracking process.

Or - if you're really ambitious - you'll learn the ancient art of razor blades and scotch tape.


OTOH, there's no reason you can't do what you've originally proposed. You don't have to "hopefully end up with 12 tracks or less", though. Firstly, you could submix ITB and then send stems to the mixer. Secondly, the effect returns make perfectly fine inputs from the computer, for things where you don't need the board's EQ and stuff.

[witchfeet]

I have really contemplated sticking to eight tracks on the Otari, and if I can I will. But the guys I usually work with like to overdub vocals, leads. and solos and my band is a two guitar band so it gets iffy. I'd like to learn the ropes of bouncing, etc but at the same time I have the tools available to avoid this problem so it's a tough decision. I'll probably take it on a case to case basis I guess.

I have actually been grouping tracks out of the computer on mixdown since I only have eight outs right now. It works fine, but the more control I have the better. Basically I do some eq-ing and mixing in the box, but do as much as I can with the Tascam as it sounds better running through it to me. I like the "oomph" it adds.

Never thought about using the effect returns as track inputs for mixdown. Thanks for that tip!

[ashcat_lt]

The Beetles liked to overdub vocals and leads, too. They didn't get 8 tracks till later.

Stereo drums, bass, 2 guitars, and you've got 4 tracks for vox and whatever else.

Another option, which might require some extra gear, would be to stripe SMPTE to one track on the tape and slave your DAW to that. Use the tape for stuff that will benefit most from its thing, and record other things to the DAW.

[audiopace]

Here is what I would do:

Record it all into the computer initially. You can use the analog console as your pre amp front end for the pres and eqs if desired.

Treat your analog 8 track as a piece of outboard gear to re-record anything you desire to have that good old tape sound. (this gives you flexibility to play with the machine to get the sound you want as many times as you want.) Transfer it back to the computer from tape and line it back up if necessary.

Have all of your outboard gear, your tape machine and your computer interface accessible in a patch bay.

Lastly, play outside the box all you want prior to the final mix, but you might be happier in the long run if you stay in the DAW for the final mix for it's automation and total recall and archive ability.

Hope this helps.

[chris harris]

witchfeet,

Do it exactly how you've planned to do it. There are tons of people who have access to tape machines and analog mixers that they like, who do it this way every day. The process that you've outlined is fairly standard practice for lots of people these days.

And, don't let anyone talk you out of it because of THEIR preferences. Just give it a try. I'm sure that you'll find that it's a comfortable workflow that can definitely yield excellent results.

I probably would not take the time to attempt.....

Yep. That's definitely lazy. I say take the time to try EVERYTHING.

Record it all into the computer initially. You can use the analog console as your pre amp front end for the pres and eqs if desired.

Treat your analog 8 track as a piece of outboard gear to re-record anything you desire to have that good old tape sound. (this gives you flexibility to play with the machine to get the sound you want as many times as you want.) Transfer it back to the computer from tape and line it back up if necessary.

It's definitely not the same as tracking to tape. And, manually lining things up is a huge pain. At the very least, if you're going to be passing digital audio through your tape machine, capture from the repro head in real time so it's just a slight shift and you don't have to worry about drift.

Lastly, play outside the box all you want prior to the final mix, but you might be happier in the long run if you stay in the DAW for the final mix for it's automation and total recall and archive ability.

I think that it depends on your (and your clients') needs and preferences. I still use DAW automation when mixing on an analog console. Out of the thousands of mixes that I've done, I've been asked to recall a mix only a handful of times. Definitely not enough to change the way that I prefer to work.

[audiopace]

Subatomic has good points regarding tracking and mixing in analog. I agree with establishing your preferred way of working and sticking with it. Since the original post was soliciting advice on the matter, there are a couple of things to consider. One being that cutting drums to a MX5050 (1/4" ?) is different than cutting to a 2" Studer a827. In this day in age, there would be no reason to not cut to the DAW. I might alter my original comment by suggesting that you cut to both, using the DAW as your backup just in case you have edge track distortion or something goes wrong with the tape machine during the magic take.

Cutting to both makes lining up the tracks a snap, using one of the source's transients as your reference. In a post situation, you can record a tick at the top of the track and line them up that way quickly.

Lastly, regarding staying in the box, I sent a mix to a client two days ago and worked on another project this evening. The first client emailed back and wanted to use a vocal take from the second chorus in the first. So, in this case I am glad I have total recall.

I will say this. I really really miss mixing totally on my Trident 80C. Subatomic does have the best of both worlds.

[curtiswyant]

You need the Voxengo latency delay plugin. I run my tape machine into my Firepod with the latency delay plugin over the inputs. Set the delay compensation for the time it takes an audio signal to go from sound card output (or mixer direct out) --> tape machine --> sound card input and it will automatically line up the tape tracks.
I leave the tape machine running and record to tape, with an automatic "bounce" to digital, while monitoring/playing along with digital tracks. I don't have to worry about running out of tracks, bouncing on tape, or what order to record. No phase or alignment issues so far.

[witchfeet]

Thanks for all the comments. I think I'm going to stick with my original plan. It just seems the most logical to me and requires no syncing of anything.

I'll mainly be working with my band and maybe some friends around Chicago for free, so I'm not really worried about "clients" and their needs. I think my setup will give me the sound I'm going for. I hope to get a decent Soundcraft or similar lower end professional console in the near future too.

[I'm Painting Again]

your original idea seems good to me..

just watch the Otari..it's unbalanced and usually (if not modded) pin 3 hot..a cause of much headache interfacing it with other gear..