When is best to convert mixes to 16/44.1 in DIY mastering?

recall · Post by **recall** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:49 pm

Lately I have had bands come to me asking for additional mixing/production and mastering on their DIY projects. I think we have achieved some good results and I am really comfortable in just pushing their mixes across the finishing.

For he last couple of mastering jobs I have done all my processing of the mixes in pro tools at the original 24/44.1 sample rate then shift-apple-k export files as interleaved 24bit wavs.

I then import these files into DSP quattro, do gaps and fades and use the "burn cd" button.

Now this means DSP is doing the final conversion from 24/44.1 to 16/44.1

Is this the best/most efficient way to do things or would I be better off importing the 24 bit mixes into a new 16 bit pro tools session and converting using tweakhead BEFORE doing all my processing? Or even once the processing has been done in the 24bit session export using shift-apple-k to 16bit.

I guess I want to do the conversion where it hurts the least!

I'd really appreciate your help and wisdom, I don't proclaim to be out to take professional ME's work but I do take pride in doing my best and trying my hardest for clients who otherwise would not get their records put together.

Thanks,

Iwan

Nick Sevilla · Post by **Nick Sevilla** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:58 pm

Hi,

What I've seen and heard from MEs is to do it as the last possible step.

The ones I use typically play back through an analogue mastering system, and have their final converters set to the final destination format. For audio CDs, that would be 44100Hz 16 bits.

Cheers

recall · Post by **recall** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:12 pm

Hi Nick,

Thanks for the reply. The ones I use for my higher budget clients do exactly as you say using one playback system and then a capture system at 16/44.1.

However when I do the mastering for my lower budget friends i only have one system so I can't record my 24 bit playback to another system capturing at 16/44.1

So I guess my choices are:

1. Carry on as I am now. Processing in PT at 24/44, import 24/44 files into DSP Quattro, assemble CD. Let DSP Quattro downsample to 16 bit at final "burn cd" command

or,

2. Process in PT at 24/44 then export interleaved files at 16/44 from PT using shift-apple-k, Pro Tools therefore handles SRC and dither. Assemble 16 bit files in DSP - therefore no src happens in this program.

I guess I'll A/B both methods tomorrow but I would be very interested in others' experiences and thoughts as to what the best choice is.

Thanks,
Iwan

ashcat_lt · Post by **ashcat_lt** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:54 pm

Generally you want to wait to downsample and dither until you're done with all your processing. If you dither first and then do something like a fade out, you'll be reducing the dither noise volume right when you need it most. This "burn" process does dither, no?

finleysound · Post by **finleysound** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:24 pm

Nick and ashcat have it right. Do all your processing in 24-bit, even fades, then downsample and dither.

If you create your 16-bit masters in PT and then assemble in DSP, that's fine too - as long as you aren't applying any additional processing (fades, gain changes, etc.) to those 16-bit files. Well, you can, but I think you'll find the end result is not as good.

recall · Post by **recall** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:12 am

Thanks for all the replies guys,

I was thinking more about this last night and came to the conclusion that drawing fades in DSP Quattro would negate any dither/downsampling done before it. So it looks like my thinking has been confirmed by your replies.

DSP does apply dither at burn. BTW if any one else is in the same boat as me it is a good program to have around. Also very reasonably priced.

ott0bot · Post by **ott0bot** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:35 pm

good info guys.

when i've done quasi mastering for no budget projects, I just did in in protools using an aux and printing to a new track. I use a plug in eq (just got the URS N series), then send out through a lynx aurora to a pair of tla-50's, and back into the daw to a plug-in limiter (tracks brickwall or massey), and then some additional more precise eq. Then dither with tweakhead while exporting with the shift+command+k. Then burn in toast.

It all seems to work well enough despite my weak innaccurate krk monitors and the fact I am in a spare bedroom with not much for acoustic treatment.

I say all this only because I am wondering if you can send to outboard gear with the DSP software or is it all just plug in based. I will download and and check it ou either way since there are so many great free dsp plugins I never get to use in pro tools. Also it looks like the disc burning part of the program might be really useful.

thanks for the link.

recall · Post by **recall** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:06 pm

Hi,

DSPQ has a lot of feature I have not delved into yet and I am not sure if hardware inserts are available. I have to say I do quite enjoy limiting myself (no pun intended!) to just using it for gaps and fades.

I would check it out, they have a 50% off offer at the moment I think.

Waltz Mastering · Post by **Waltz Mastering** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:46 pm

recall wrote:For he last couple of mastering jobs I have done all my processing of the mixes in pro tools at the original 24/44.1 sample rate then shift-apple-k export files as interleaved 24bit wavs.

recall wrote: Is this the best/most efficient way to do things or would I be better off importing the 24 bit mixes into a new 16 bit pro tools session and converting using tweakhead BEFORE doing all my processing? Or even once the processing has been done in the 24bit session export using shift-apple-k to 16bit.

If your files are at 44.1 as you say, there would be no need for sample rate conversion...so Tweakhead would not be used unless you are going from 48, 88.2, 96 etc to 44.1 Khz.

Under the conditions you describe you would only need to add dither as the last process in mastering when you change the bit depth from 24 to 16.

ott0bot · Post by **ott0bot** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:55 pm

recall wrote:Hi,

DSPQ has a lot of feature I have not delved into yet and I am not sure if hardware inserts are available. I have to say I do quite enjoy limiting myself (no pun intended!) to just using it for gaps and fades.

I would check it out, they have a 50% off offer at the moment I think.

ok swell. For some reson I thought it was free...probably confused it with something else. Thanks for the info.

@?,*???&? · Post by **@?,*???&?** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:29 am

Great question.

Having just cranked out a Red Book CD master here and using CD Architect to do so, I found that CD Architect is a 24-bit audio program. So apparently, one should work with 24-bit files right up until touching this program to render a Red Book CD with PQ sheet.

I know most of the big mastering guys have someone else do the assembly at their place. My question for the mastering house would be for the guy doing the EQ and Compression and not the sequencing of the disc- what are you rendering and what kind of files are you providing to the assembly guy at your place?

Having spoken to a friend that masters out of Sterling Sound (and he may have been messing with me when he said this), they simply truncate from 24 to 16 with don't dither. I didn't ask when in the sequence of events this took place, but my guess, is that it would be in the assembly program- which in my case, is CD Architect.

Waltz Mastering · Post by **Waltz Mastering** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:06 pm

...see...that's how internet rumors get started....

A.David.MacKinnon · Post by **A.David.MacKinnon** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:06 am

@?,*???&? wrote:
I know most of the big mastering guys have someone else do the assembly at their place. My question for the mastering house would be for the guy doing the EQ and Compression and not the sequencing of the disc- what are you rendering and what kind of files are you providing to the assembly guy at your place?

Every mastering engineer I've ever worked with (big and small) have handled the sequencing as well. It's the quickest part of process.

@?,*???&? · Post by **@?,*???&?** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:14 am

A.David.MacKinnon wrote:
@?,*???&? wrote:
I know most of the big mastering guys have someone else do the assembly at their place. My question for the mastering house would be for the guy doing the EQ and Compression and not the sequencing of the disc- what are you rendering and what kind of files are you providing to the assembly guy at your place?
Every mastering engineer I've ever worked with (big and small) have handled the sequencing as well. It's the quickest part of process.

Not the case with the guys I've used. Running eq'd and compressed mixes off the board or out of the mastering chain, they typically record into a program like Sonic Solutions or a Sadie system- but not an assembly program like CD Architect.

@?,*???&? · Post by **@?,*???&?** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:15 am

Waltz Mastering wrote:...see...that's how internet rumors get started....

...or legend!

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When is best to convert mixes to 16/44.1 in DIY mastering?

When is best to convert mixes to 16/44.1 in DIY mastering?

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