Headphones while tracking

kevin206 · Post by **kevin206** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:12 pm

It's been a while since I've recorded much other than a practice, but I'm pretty settled into my new practice space and I want to start recording again. Something that I have never really been happy with is my headphone monitoring situation. I built a little 4 channel headphone amp using a PAIA schematic. It uses op-amps to drive the headphones individually. I have 2 1/4" input jacks with one being a switching type. I can plug into one jack for a mono mix and into both for a stereo mix. Each headphone has it's own volume. The problem is just in setting it all up and using it. I normally sett it on the middle of the floor and run extension cables to the phones. That ends up with a mess of cables to and fro with the volumes just out of everyones reach. And then the drummer can never get enough volume to make him happy. Also, everyone gets the same mix and everyone wants 'more me'.

Is there a better way to go about this? What do you guys do? I've got loads of stuff laying around that could be repurposed if needed. I'm even willing to buy some new stuff, but I don't want to go overboard.

AndyHutchinson · Post by **AndyHutchinson** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 2:35 pm

I suppose I'll give the standard answer: it depends. The short answer, however, will be building or buying more headphone amps. Even one more would cut down on cable mess and make volume control easier. If you have enough aux outs, you can route one aux send to each headphone amp so you can give everyone "more me."

Theo_Karon · Post by **Theo_Karon** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 4:10 pm

I use this one, and am quite happy with it:

http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?id=HDS-6

you get four pgm inputs and an input for a stereo mix, all of which can be mixed separately at each little headphone mixer. Each mixer has two headphone outs, and you can connect up to eight of them. I feed the four program ins from my console's aux sends, and send my board mix to the stereo input in case anyone wants to mix that in.

GussyLoveridge · Post by **GussyLoveridge** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:13 pm

I know this probably isn't what you're going for and it doesn't work for everyone, but figuring out a way to remove headphones from the equation is pretty awesome.

Most people don't play music with headphones on and it's just another odd thing your brain thinks about when you're in the studio because it doesn't feel natural.

I like setting up in such a way that you can avoid it.

If you have a singer that knows how to work the mic, do a few passes with them having the headphones on to get an idea of how sensitive the mic is and how much they need to work it, how much proximity effect there is etc.

Then have them remove the headphones and just focus on singing. I do this tons when I'm working with small combos, solo singer/songwriters and occassionaly full bands if they are comfortable with it.

- OR -

You can set up like you're making monitor mixes at a live gig with your board and build everyone a mix. I usually just record once through the song and use that to build my mixes from. The biggest thing here I find is to actually listen with the person you're making the mix for. I have found that most musicians I have worked with will keep recording and recording over and over with the most heinous headphone mixes. Take your time with it and get it right, if they're going to wear headphones, they'll love you for having them sound good in them.

I did a session with these players last year for one day. Just a couple guys that came in to play on someones tune. Two months later I got a call that they wanted to come in and record a full album of their own and the guy told me it was because I got really good headphone mixes quickly and that just made it comfortable for them.

goose134 · Post by **goose134** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:53 pm

I have a pretty nice setup, though it may be more rudimentary than you're looking for. Basically, I've got 8 'stations' in the room with a stereo jack wired to an L-pad for volume control. All 8 stations go back to a dropping resistor array that is powered by a 40 w Pyle Pro stereo amp. It's nice because you can listen back in the room, or if I switch inputs (with a knob) I can route my iTunes through the setup and get behind the drums and jam with whatever.

I don't have the ability to switch between stereo and mono, but it's never really come up.

kevin206 · Post by **kevin206** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:50 pm

Gussy, I may be limited on how many mixes I can make. My interface has two stereo outs I think. But I guess I could use my board a little more. I'm perfectly fine with no headphones. The drummer however is wanting the bass and guitar to play to a click and then he wants to come back and do his tracks. He's been working really hard on his timing and he's really doing a good job, but he wants to be perfect. He plays off the beat a lot and a standard 4/4 click is really throwing him. Our singer doesn't have very good mic technique. And he can't sing unless he's playing guitar. It's actually kind of funny. We've done recordings before and he's strummed his parts while he did his vocals.

Goose, I'd actually like to know more about your setup. Is that array a homebuilt thing? I picked up a speaker switching thing that kinda sounds like what you may have. I would have to dig it out and look, but it's got a bunch of switches to turn speakers on/off and is supposed keep the impedance in check. I remember they had one similar at radio shack years ago for the speaker display.

frans_13 · Post by **frans_13** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:23 am

If someone wants themeselves louder in the headphones and louder and.. I prescribe heavily closed headphones -isolation headphones if you want to call them- keeps all the loud drumming and whatnot out so you hear yourself better without blow-torching your eardrums by high volumes. Ask Pete Townshend, he blames headphones for his hearing issues and not standing in front of two fullstacks of Hiwatt.
Especially nice if the drummer wants a click. Way less volume needed.

goose134 · Post by **goose134** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:40 pm

Yes, it is homebuilt. I'll try and post a picture of it soon. Basically, each wire of the amp is soldered to a bus. One end of the resistor is soldered to the bus. Each station wire is soldered to the other end of the resistor (one resistor for each wire)

I don't remember what the value of the resistor is, but it would be simple to find out. Yes, they are there to keep the impedance in check. I wish I remember how much it cost, but I don't. I think with wire, L-Pads, jacks, resistors and amp, it was around $300.

I'll see if I can get some pics up later this week.

kevin206 · Post by **kevin206** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:24 pm

It would be great if you could post some pics. I'm also interested in knowing what you're using for extension cables. Years ago I was doing some recording at a small studio in Nashville. They had wall plates in each room with xlr mic inputs and 1/4" headphone jacks. But I'm pretty sure that I remember they also had provisions for extra phones that consisted of a little box with 2 1/4" jacks for phones and xlr's for the extensions. I could be wrong though.

And also, is it a set it and forget it deal, or do you have to change things when a set of phones are unplugged or plugged in?
And would the little Ipod earbuds be of any use when tracking?

tonewoods · Post by **tonewoods** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:09 am

GussyLoveridge wrote:....but figuring out a way to remove headphones from the equation is pretty awesome.

For tracking bands, this has become my mantra...

If I was better at Photoshop, I'd make a big poster of a set of Sony headphones, with the big red international "NO" symbol superimposed over it....

I think cans get in the way of very important communication, add to a bad room mix with one person getting louder or softer than they should be, are unnatural for a lot of singers, etc. etc.....

I try not to even use them for overdubs, instead relying on a blasting JBL Eon and a properly placed mic...

YMMV....

goose134 · Post by **goose134** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:43 pm

I'll apologize in advance for the poor quality of the array photo. My camera phone, she is not so good. Here is the resistor array. You can see the red and blue wires go out to the field wiring and the two soldered to the bus arrangement are from the amp:

So then all of the field wiring goes to stations around the room. Below the headphone jack and volume are the 1/4" and XLR that go to another panel.

Unrelated, but the !/4" and XLR's go to this panel which I use to patch into the MOTU. The back panel is Macassar Ebony and the standoffs are extruded bronze that I salvaged from a Cartier job I did.

So I hope this helps visualize a bit. The setup is set it and forget it. As to extensions, there are none. The stations are placed where people naturally stand in the room. I have 7 stations and could add 1 or 2 more, but the need hasn't come up.

kevin206 · Post by **kevin206** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:28 pm

Wow! That's one slick setup you have there. I'm so jealous right now.

I assumed that the resistors had to be big, hefty wirewounds, but I see that they are just regular carbons. And is that standard mic cabling? How did you come up with the idea for the resistor array?

My new room for practice and recording is about 24x35 with high vaulted ceilings, basically a garage. When I was is the planning stages I posted on here to get some guidance about sizing up my control room and booths. As suggested, I have left it as one big room. It's really nice to have such an open space, but it creates some problems, such as outlets being 12' away when you're in the middle of the room. It also doesn't leave places to route or hide cabling. It all ends up under a rug or somewhere, but it's still in a pathway.

goose134 · Post by **goose134** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:23 pm

One thing you could do is channel the concrete for conduit runs to floor boxes. We do it all the time. Ever go to a museum or other large room and see a receptacle in the floor? You get the idea. You just pour concrete over it once your done and paint the whole floor. Generally, you'll never see where you cut in. Or maybe you will and you won't care. For the three cables required in my setup (2 shielded pair, and and instrument cable)a 3/4" conduit would suffice. A floor mount would certainly eliminate a volume control but we don't use it much anyway.

kevin206 · Post by **kevin206** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:01 pm

Hey Goose, I'm not wanting to cut a channel, but I'm working on an idea for a portable solution. Something like yours, but instead of wiring through the walls I would use some sort of connecting cable to go from the "array" to individual boxes that would contain the L-pad and headphone jack.
Now I have a few questions.
1. What value resistor did you use? And wattage, too.
2. What gauge wire would you recommend using?
3. How well does it work straight in without the L-pad?
4. What would you change if you did it again.

Well, maybe more than just a few, but any advice would be appreciated.

goose134 · Post by **goose134** » Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:57 pm

kevin206 wrote:Hey Goose, I'm not wanting to cut a channel, but I'm working on an idea for a portable solution. Something like yours, but instead of wiring through the walls I would use some sort of connecting cable to go from the "array" to individual boxes that would contain the L-pad and headphone jack.
Now I have a few questions.
1. What value resistor did you use? And wattage, too.
2. What gauge wire would you recommend using?
3. How well does it work straight in without the L-pad?
4. What would you change if you did it again.

Well, maybe more than just a few, but any advice would be appreciated.

I'd have to ask my buddy about the resistors, I don't know.
The wire was standard twisted pair with ground. I believe it was 16 or 18
One of my L-pads failed because of lime intrusion from behind (it's on an outside wall). We wired past it and it works just fine.
I would change nothing.

Message Board

Headphones while tracking

Headphones while tracking

Who is online