"All Rights Reserved"

ubertar · Post by **ubertar** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:54 pm

TapeOpLarry wrote:Slapping (c) on there is pretending you registered.

"Slapping" ? on there isn't "pretending" anything. By law, you own the copyright to your work automatically, by creating it. By putting the ? on there, you're letting people know you own the copyright. Registering is an extra step that can help if there's a dispute, but it's not legally necessary. It's just extra protection.

Gregg Juke · Post by **Gregg Juke** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:23 pm

+1 on what ubertar and Chris said. -1 on me if I misread Justin's post (but it sounded like it was venturing into that "all that legal mumbo-jumbo stuff is for all of you old guys and doesn't matter anymore" area, which is not at all true if you care about your music/art and it's future use/exploitation).

You work (song, play, poem, whatever) is copyright-owned by you the moment you "fix it" into a form (out of your head)-- Score, Recording, MIDI File, Script, Video, etc., etc., etc. Copyright registration with the LOC (wax cylinder not necessary) is a subsequent, but important step that does give you added protections in the event that there is an issue.

Band names are a whole 'nuther deal (shant go into that here). The song should be registered/publicly notified in the name(s) of the actual songwriter(s), unless you are willing to split any and all future revenue and any and all control of the material in question exactly evenly/equally with all bandmembers, regardless of contribution.

(C) denotes copyright in the work itself (the underlying composition). (P) denotes copyright ownership of the (particular) sound recording that embodies that work (they are two separate but related things). "All Rights Reserved" covers anything "in-between" that anyone may construe/misconstrue as an invitation for a rights free-for-all, and also serves notice outside of the US that the song/material in-question is copyright-controlled.

It is still often done, but mailing a copy to oneself is no where near as legally solid as just registering with the LOC. If it's too expensive for you, wait until you have a bunch, and register a "collection."

Also, knowing your rights under the law is going to be much _more_ important into the ensuing decades of the digital/world commerce era, not less. Don't rely on "CD manufacturing receipts/invoices" to secure your copyright (although you should keep those too!)... Know the law and some of the important aspects of the business side of music and recording as well. If anyone would like some book titles to check out, let me know.
This is important stuff...

Sorry for the novel-length post.

GJ

lapsteel · Post by **lapsteel** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:58 pm

I go with;
(C) year (name of holder), (P) year (name of holder)

or

(C)(P) year (name of holder) if the holder is the same for both.

I thought "all rights reserved" was implied, but maybe I should use it. I have before, but noticed that most albums don't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_rights_reserved
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Conv ... stic_Works

Reading that makes me think you don't need it.

fossiltooth · Post by **fossiltooth** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:56 am

ubertar wrote:By law, you own the copyright to your work automatically, by creating it. By putting the ? on there, you're letting people know you own the copyright. Registering is an extra step that can help if there's a dispute, but it's not legally necessary. It's just extra protection.

^^^If I could do it all again, I would have typed something a little more like this this.^^^ Well said! Clear, concise, true. Dig it.

Tragabigzanda · Post by **Tragabigzanda** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:25 am

fossiltooth wrote:As far as licencing and publishing rights go, as long as you can reasonably show that you created your song by such-and-such a date, you're pretty well covered. I wouldn't worry too much about Zack Braff or Kanye West stealing your song and trying to not give you money for it. You should be so lucky!

Not true. For ASCAP/BMI/etc to collect your revenue for any mechanical/sync licensing, you need to register the song with your publishing organization as both the songwriter and publisher. If you had a prominent placement (say, over the closing credits of "Bones"), you would probably want to be extra diligent, and include an ISRC or Tunecore ID# with your registration. It's sort of bizarre--the mastering guy can embed those codes into your CD, but they won't even be transferred to the "Bones" audio master; the sound guy on "Bones" will lift that code from your song, and submit it to ASCAP/BMI/whoever with their sync submission report.

By registering as Songwriter only, you would collect revenue, but have no say in where your song gets placed; by registering as the publisher, you would also get to decide who uses your song. The example that was given to me was very helpful: let's say you're a vegetarian and the beef industry wants to use your song in a commercial. As the songwriter, you couldn't stop them; as the publisher, you could.

Believe it or not, there are actually people who are paid by publishing organizations to survey and sample content (TV, radio, etc) to identify revenue opportunities. So yea, if you're just self-releasing a record to sell on your tour, you don't have to go crazy. But if you're looking to break into more large-scale, commercial work, there's a "right way" to do it.

Also, +1 on Larry's comments regarding copyright.

Tragabigzanda · Post by **Tragabigzanda** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:28 am

p.s. Don't mean to sound like a know-it-all; this just happens to be exactly the sort of work I've been learning about over the last few months!

Jitters · Post by **Jitters** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:47 am

Tragibigzanda wrote:p.s. Don't mean to sound like a know-it-all; this just happens to be exactly the sort of work I've been learning about over the last few months!

Not at all! I appreciate the info. I have been interested in what possible benefits registering as a publishing 'company' would afford me. I suppose if I was interested in getting other artists to cover my songs a publishing company would be the way to go.

Gregg Juke · Post by **Gregg Juke** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:01 am

Oh, BTW, something I forgot to add (and thanks Alex for shedding light on it as well):

ASCAP and BMI (and SESAC) don't have anything to do with registration of copyright (or copyright per se). But they do administer copyrights for you and represent "the song" (for a percentage, of course) if you are a songwriter, publisher, or both, in regards to airplay royalties only (radio and TV).

Mechanical royalties fall under the domain of Harry Fox Agency, or newbies like Limelight/Rightsflow. Internet airplay royalties are handled by Sound-Exchange.

None of them do any registration of copyright, though. That is up to the owner, and best done in the US through the LOC.

GJ

fossiltooth · Post by **fossiltooth** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:05 pm

I think we're venturing a little out-of-scope for the thread. The OP writes:

Jitters wrote: What is the bare minimum of legalese you are comfortable with?

In my specific case this isn?t a barcode type thing, but we can call a barcode ?legalese? for the sake of the discussion.

Based on this, I imagine we're talking about a small-scale, under-the-radar, self-release here, right? Jitters, please correct me if this is a bogus assumption.

If it is such a release, I don't think the OP needs to worry about ASCAP or BMI or Harry Fox right now. IME, a career or hobby at this stage is best served by focusing on the really important stuff: making cool music. So, keep reasonable records that help prove your creation dates, and add basic verbiage and symbols to your release that state your copyright. I'm not really sure what we're arguing about here...

Many of us have read Donald Passman's book and others like it ( http://tinyurl.com/6c66vo ). There's also plenty of info on how copyright law works here: http://tinyurl.com/l8a That doesn't mean every case necessitates this kind of treatment. Let's try and keep the OP's needs in mind: If we're talking about something more than a small-scale, under-the-radar, self-release, then he should probably get the heck off the TOMB and get some actual legal advice, right!?

With that said, I'll respectfully back out of this discussion. Thanks for reading and happy tracking!

Tragabigzanda · Post by **Tragabigzanda** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:15 pm

Gregg Juke wrote: Internet airplay royalties are handled by Sound-Exchange.

Yep, though Soundexchange is unique in that it collects royalties for the performers on a track (the drummer, keyboardist, vocalist, etc), rather than the composers or publishers.

fossiltooth wrote: If it is such a release, I don't think the OP needs to worry about ASCAP or BMI or Harry Fox right now. IME, a career or hobby at this stage is best served by focusing on the really important stuff: making cool music. So, keep reasonable records that help prove your creation dates, and add basic verbiage and symbols to your release that state your copyright. I'm not really sure what we're arguing about here...

Point taken, though I'm just climbing out of the hole of misinformation that exists out there regarding this stuff. I found all sorts of conflicting reports regarding copyright and royalties, and I'd hate to see this thread be another misleading search return on Google!

But ultimately, Justin's right: you should talk to the experts. Talk is cheap, and the people at ASCAP were enormously helpful with all my questions. Berklee Press has some great books on the subject, too.

Gregg Juke · Post by **Gregg Juke** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:35 pm

Not the OP, but an early subsequent poster asked about ASCAP/BMI. It was in that spirit and for that reason that the info was offered; especially considering that the OP himself might be confused by their (ASCAP/BMI's) inclusion in the thread. Make sense? Sure does.

As to making assumptions about the "level" of a release, how much/how intensely someone should "care" about their creations and the rights (and knowledge of those rights and their protection) contained therein, I leave it to you all, dear readers and OP, to decide. I think anything less than full understanding and the ability to use that understanding to one's advantage is foolishness. It goes without saying that artists should develop their art. For years, artists have been kept in the dark (or have willfully kept themselves in the dark like the proverbial ostrich) about the business end. I'm sorry, I don't think we should promote that point of view. You don't need a law degree, you do need to know the basics of what's going on.

Can you tell I'm passionate about that?

GJ

Jitters · Post by **Jitters** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:25 pm

It's all good guys, I think I got the info I needed, and am always happy to see a conversation expand.

My main concern was the fear that leaving specific verbiage off of the package might forfeit my rights somehow. I'm not too worried about that now. I will be sending off a collection of the songs for proper copyright.

I am still curious what the advantage would be to 'publishing' the songs as it's a fairly cheap process, and I might like to try to get them placed in a movie or covered by Aerosmith or something down the line. Plus "All titles published by Jitteresqe Jingles" would look pretty bitchin' on the cover.

Gregg Juke · Post by **Gregg Juke** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:29 pm

PM'd.

GJ

Jitters · Post by **Jitters** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:04 am

Gracias amigo!

Gregg Juke · Post by **Gregg Juke** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:29 am

No problem babe... That's what we're here for!

GJ

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