How would YOU record this Surf Rock Band?

Mystic Steamship Co. · Post by **Mystic Steamship Co.** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:59 pm

I've got a pretty good idea of how I am going to record this band, but I would like to hear how some of you would tackle a project like this with a limited equipment setup, and limited space. Where would YOU put the amps in the room? What mics would YOU choose on each source? There will be no overdubs, everything is live.

Here are the stipulations,

Two guitarists that switch between lead and rhythm guitar, a bass player and a drummer, all playing LIVE in one small room 18' long and 12' wide.

Vintage Ludwig Drums, Strats and Jaguar into Small fender combo amps. Pbass into combo amp.

Here's the equipment to work with....
1/2" 8 Track tape
Soundcraft Series 2 Console
RCA BC3 50's tube console (4 tube pre's with direct outs and 3 that sum into mono)
AKG BX20 spring reverb
Sansamp bass DI
3 Baffles

Mic's

Coles 4038
2 Old AKG 451's
2 Old White Sennheiser 421's
AKG D12
EV 646
SM57
U67

MoreSpaceEcho · Post by **MoreSpaceEcho** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:32 pm

having no actual experience with most of those mics, i'd use the coles as mono overhead, the d12 on the kick, the 67 on the bass amp, and the 421s on the guitars. the ev on snare (you probably won't need it with the coles as o/h), 451s on toms? i've no idea. use the 57 as a paperweight to hold down the pile of cash the band's paying you.

i'd have the amps either right next to the drums or facing them from out front.

those are pretty nice mics for a "limited" setup!

JGriffin · Post by **JGriffin** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:27 am

MoreSpaceEcho wrote:having no actual experience with most of those mics, i'd use the coles as mono overhead, the d12 on the kick, the 67 on the bass amp, and the 421s on the guitars. the ev on snare (you probably won't need it with the coles as o/h), 451s on toms? i've no idea. use the 57 as a paperweight to hold down the pile of cash the band's paying you.

i'd have the amps either right next to the drums or facing them from out front.

those are pretty nice mics for a "limited" setup!

That's pretty much what I was going to say, except for the thing about the 451s. But I'd add: put the RCA console in a box and ship it to me.

rushofblood · Post by **rushofblood** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:43 am

i would try the 451s as a stereo room

Mystic Steamship Co. · Post by **Mystic Steamship Co.** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 7:34 am

This is the first session at a new studio my friend and I put up, hence the microphones and stuff. I've never recorded surf rock before, but it should be fun. I think with the equipment at our disposal we should be able to make something that sounds pretty good. I'm just digging for ideas and alternate approaches before things start going to tape.

I think I will try the 451's as room mics, that could be interesting. The room is pretty small though. How are 451's on Bass amp? maybe even combine the 451 with an old 421 or D12 on the bass cab.

That would free up the 67 (It's a homemade U67 not an old Neumann) for front of kit or lead guitar.

digitaldrummer · Post by **digitaldrummer** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:00 am

you might try pointing the 451's into the corners (up, down, or straight ahead) as room mics so you don't get the direct sound, but the reflections off the walls. that could help give some overall ambience (instead of using reverb later).

Mike

JohnDavisNYC · Post by **JohnDavisNYC** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:19 am

421's on each guitar amp

D12 on bass drum
451 on snare top
Coles as mono overhead
67 as a mono front of kit thingy
the EV somewhere fun

57 on the bass amp, and a DI, mixed to one track with the RCA tube mixer.
421's on each guitar amp

sounds like fun.

john

radical recording · Post by **radical recording** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:58 am

use the 57 as a paperweight to hold down the pile of cash the band's paying you.

Every time I try that with a 57, the mic rolls off and the cash blows away.

decocco · Post by **decocco** » Thu May 12, 2011 3:54 pm

I would record them at the beach...

...seriously. It's surf rock.

+1 what JonDavisNYC said.

Housebelow · Post by **Housebelow** » Fri May 13, 2011 1:03 pm

Whichever mics you decide to use on each instrument I'd say leave at least one channel open for a room mic. Surf rock's all about room sounds, I don't know what your room sounds like but having recorded a surf rock record before, you can't go wrong with room sounds. Keeps stuff nice and open, little more "trashy" but so surf rock.

I'd also stick with mono overheads if it means gettin the room sound. We once tracked a live album with kick/snare and mono overhead onto 8 track tape machine (with the other instruments of course) but with the room mic up it added a lot of depth to the drums and a lot of energy.

Do whatever you gotta do to capture That energy. In my opinion surf rock is all about room sounds and the energy of the music. Do whatever to bottle it up

jgimbel · Post by **jgimbel** » Sat May 21, 2011 11:47 pm

+1 to what Housebelow said. I spent the weekend recording a pretty gritty blues rock band, but their sounds were very surf. The main guitars were the guitarist's strat and my jaguar into a '65 DRRI, SM7 close micing. For a number of the songs we relied on pretty heavy amp reverb, which sounded very surfy and really great. I also had a room mic a few feet away, and another a good bit further back. I ended up compressing the room mics, panning them a bit, and using the close mic up the middle, and while the close mic sounds awesome and definitely "surf", it wouldn't sound nearly as great without the room mics in there.

Housebelow · Post by **Housebelow** » Sun May 22, 2011 9:22 am

A great thing to do to is mess with the panning. I had two guitars in the band so I had the close mics centered and one room mic panned all the way to the right and the other room mic panned all the way to the left. Or put the close mic in one side and the room mic on the other. You can make the sound so open with the panning.

gavintheaudioengineer · Post by **gavintheaudioengineer** » Tue May 24, 2011 9:04 am

you could line up like this- guitar/baffle/drums/baffle/guitar all facing the same way, then a baffle in front of the kit with the bass amp facing it on the opposing wall. Then, depending on what choice of mics you're going with, set up a stereo pair facing the drums and above the bass amp, experiment with height, but pan them left and right on the desk for some wobbly, sickly, roomy width that places the instruments in a nice stereo arrangement

top_ape · Post by **top_ape** » Tue May 24, 2011 7:58 pm

Here's how I'd fill out 8 tracks, assuming there's no headphones and the band needs to hear each other.

1 bass amp about 4-6' to the Coles, then another 4-6' to the BD (i.e. Coles right between them, positioned to pick up a balance)

2 D12 close on the BD

3 bass gtr DI

4 451 low to the ground, a foot or 2 out from the snare and angled to pick up a snare/hat balance and angled to reject the bass/gtrs

5 451 on the ride side, about drummer head height, aimed at the snare and picking up a balance of snare, toms and ride

6-7 gtr amps positioned in the null of the 4038, close mic'd with the remaining dynamics - probably not both 421s, but 2 different mics. I'd probably start with a 421 and a 57 and experiment from there.

8 the 67 set to omni where it sounds good

or alternately, if you NEED close mics on the snare/toms, use the 3 channel mixer to combine those to track 8. Probably not necessary though.

probably play with amp positioning and baffles to maximize rejection on the OH, maybe no baffles at all

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