Anyone know about a virtual hard disk recorder?

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Peterson Goodwyn
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Post by Peterson Goodwyn » Sun May 08, 2011 4:34 pm

Oh man, brilliant idea Snarl--- this would be IT in terms of making my dream of an affordable, portable system with a tape-like workflow a reality. I do wonder if this would be possible with REAPER skins and templates.

I also wonder if this could conceivably made into a VST plugin?

Command line would be great for pulling out at sessions. I can hear the buzz, "That guy's such a ninja--I think he mixes in DOS!"
I like to build the stuff that I record with.
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Post by KoffeeKommando » Sun May 08, 2011 4:54 pm

I also wonder if this could conceivably made into a VST plugin?
The virtual ADAT is already a plugin for Sonic Core. Just like I said in the original thread Snarl got the idea from.

http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=75969

I'm sure you could do a VST plugin. Anything is possible these days.

Standalone would be a requirement first though. It would replace all the hardware recorders out there with your cheap hardware. Game over.

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Snarl 12/8
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Post by Snarl 12/8 » Sun May 08, 2011 11:53 pm

Supercollider, and all the other "audio languages" seem all about DSP and synthesis/composition. That stuff is great, but it seems like either overkill or not that applicable to just taking streams of data from converter to disk and back. I like Mr. Scum's idea of just getting to know the ASIO drivers and dealing with them. That sounds about right. I want to stay as "pure audio" as possible and not venture into filters or dithering or any processing whatsoever. I imagine I could make something I could distribute then, and not just hard wire it to my setup. The "preferences" window would consist or selecting your device from the audio devices list, maybe depth and rate.

Mr. Scum, or anyone, do you know where I'd learn to program around the ASIO drivers? Do I have to become a a registered Windows developer or something to get the docs? I went to the local technical books store and couldn't find anything that looked remotely helpful, aside from general "beginner C++" books. I'm gonna consult the googler now.
Carl Keil

Almost forgot: Please steal my drum tracks. and more.

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Post by The Scum » Mon May 09, 2011 7:57 am

ASIO is a Steinberg creation. You can download their development documents from them if you register for an account:

http://www.steinberg.net/en/company/developer.html

I'm not sure about needing to register with Microsoft - there's a freebie version of visual studio that will get you started, but check the license T&C's. I seem to recall it being free for private individual use, but you have to move to a subscription if you're developing commercially.

You'll probably want a good book on using .net, and maybe something about multithreaded programming.

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Post by KoffeeKommando » Mon May 09, 2011 9:43 am

This guy made something in Max/MSP that plays samples back and a lot more. He did up a whole interface.

Go way down his page.
http://robstewartsounddesign.wordpress.com/

Max/MSP also lets you make standalone programs somehow. They say you can redistribute them freely even if users don't have Max.

I looked at it's docs and it does support multichannel audio (28 streams?):
The only question is...can it handle hardcore audio streams? And how do we get there from here? I think it would have to be easier than writing code yourself for now.

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Post by Gentleman Jim » Mon May 09, 2011 3:30 pm

Snarl 12/8 wrote:I've got a Ramsa DA7, going into a MOTU, into my computer. I like mixing digitally on the DA7.

I really wish I'd bought an HDR when I bought that mac, I'd be sitting pretty right now.



Does anyone know of a cheap 24 track TDIF to computer interface that gets some good Linux love? Something I could trade my 2408 for?

Thanks again people.
So you have an old Mac, and a 2408. Did you buy the 2408 new, and if so, why not just use the AudioDesk software it came with?

It sounds like you have 99% of a solution with Reaper right now. Is it that inconvenient to arm tracks in Reaper? I'm not a user, so I don't know. However, isn't that something you could set up a key command for?

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Post by KoffeeKommando » Mon May 09, 2011 4:19 pm

The "multitrack DAW editor" paradigm is the problem basically. It's stale and been done to death.

It kills creativity when recording initial tracks. Gets in the way mentally.
This is why reel to reel and other analog recorders are highly desired. Not just for the sound in my opinion.

What people want is a return to the ease of analog tracking with none of its drawbacks. Hardware digital recorders are not reliable in the long run. If the company goes out of business, they cannot be repaired like an old analog machine.

If you have a simple multitrack recording program, you just swap computers and generic audio interfaces. A simple multitrack program makes things fast and easy. You don't get bogged down mentally.

Editors have their place later in the process...or not as the case may be.

If a fake Marshall amp on screen is acceptable, I think a "fake" tape style machine is easily do-able. And tons of people will agree I bet.


And as an aside, how many damn virtual volume knobs and faders do we need? From the plugins, to the mixer view, to virtual instruments. You can barely remember where they all are. Weird concept eh?

People are also sick of sitting at computers all day. Total burnout. Why do you want to sit at one all weekend while doing your "hobby"? Carpal damn tunnel and all that.

I want to hit buttons...not put 1000 miles on a mouse.

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Post by Gentleman Jim » Mon May 09, 2011 4:31 pm

Then get a MIDI controller. I have a cheezy little Korg NanoKontrol, and it has transport buttons, 9 rotary controllers, and 9 faders. <$60. If you want to spend more, get a FaderPort, or any of the dozens of others.

Or write a new software. Either one.

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Post by KoffeeKommando » Mon May 09, 2011 4:50 pm

Well, people have been writing software. Might take a little bit but it will happen.

Sure a MIDI controller would sort of do it. But it adds a little complexity for entry level people.
A simple multitrack program would be instantly useable on a human level. Just like a real hardware device. Zero learning curve.
You don't need MIDI for a cassette 4/8 track. Drop a tape in and hit record.

Now we need 24 virtual channels of that. With pro features hidden in the setup window.

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Post by dsw » Mon May 09, 2011 5:04 pm

the minute somebody builds it, there will be a message board devoted to it where everybody bitches "why won't it let me edit? why can't I use my VST plugs?" etc...

lol!!!!!!
"Analog smells like thrift stores. Digital smells like tiny hands from far away." - O-it-hz

musicians are fuckers, but even worse are people who like musicians, they're total fuckers.

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Post by KoffeeKommando » Mon May 09, 2011 5:19 pm

I'm sure of it. Hahahaha.

See, it's like we skipped a step in the evolution of computer recording here.

I remember getting into Sound Forge back in 1996 or so. From there it went down that road pretty much.

I was thrilled to get rid of cassette decks. I mean there was only one record button in SF and Cool Edit. Then they had to go multitrack in the same window. All downhill from there.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_Tools
Some artists are now making a point of recording without Pro Tools. Jack White of The White Stripes argues that "I think Pro Tools is highly inappropriate to record music... It's too easy to correct mistakes, it's too easy to fix things. We hear this sort of clean, plastic perfection that's been applied to all the tracks. That is not the kind of music we grew up loving and listening to and wanting to be a part of."

What he means by "wanting to be a part of" is the mental creation of music itself. The actual act of creating. Multiple humans interacting to create something novel out of thin air. Not one guy in a bedroom with a blue face from monitor glow.

Did you see Frank Sinatra singing alone into an Apogee One?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjJuxMHvwr8

No way, he was out bangin' chicks for inspiration. Then in the studio he got together with his crew.

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Peterson Goodwyn
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Post by Peterson Goodwyn » Mon May 09, 2011 6:50 pm

KoffeeKommando wrote:Not one guy in a bedroom with a blue face from monitor glow.
Loving this discussion but just needed to add "not that there's anything wrong with that!"

Let's not forget "Studio Tan" and "Prince Alone in the Studio"
I like to build the stuff that I record with.
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KoffeeKommando
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Post by KoffeeKommando » Mon May 09, 2011 7:03 pm

Hahaha. I'm on a weird roll lately. Not dissing anybody, just making a point.

Let's all go outside...explore the space baby..explore the space!


Prince In The Studio....pure pathos!

---------------------------------------------
Prince alone in the studio
It's two a.m. and all the girls are gone
The girls thought they were going to be able
To have sex with him
They wore their special underwear
Once the tracks were laid down
Prince's back turned around
Raspberry headphones on his head
On his ears

Prince alone in the studio
It's three a.m.
Prince hasn't eaten in eighteen hours
Dinner's burned on the stove
But Prince, he doesn't even know

Prince alone in the studio
It's four a.m.
And he finally gets that guitar track right
And it's better than anything any girl could ever give him
Because Prince is alone
Prince is alone
Oh Prince, you are so alone

And when it's all complete
He feels like a hunter on the street
And when it's all complete
He feels like a hunter on the street

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Snarl 12/8
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Post by Snarl 12/8 » Mon May 09, 2011 7:46 pm

Ugh. I think I got what I was after with this thread. Thanks scum.

It's all yours now, KK.
Carl Keil

Almost forgot: Please steal my drum tracks. and more.

KoffeeKommando
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Post by KoffeeKommando » Mon May 09, 2011 8:46 pm

Naww, thanks for the offer but I'm good. ;)

Can you even own electrons anyway?

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