How to get that late 70's early 80's drum sound?

jkelly222 · Post by **jkelly222** » Mon May 30, 2011 1:37 pm

I'm wondering if any of you guys have any insight on how so many punk/powerpop/post punk/pop records from the late 70's and early 80's attained that similar ultra dead, ultra dry, super punchy drum sound.

Tommy James, Sparks, Bowie, Devo, Joy Division, Gang of Four, The Cars. The list goes on and on and on. You can hear it throughout records between 1975-1985, some of them being huge budget major label releases and some being home recorded punk records. I have been trying to re-create this sound for years.

Starting first with the drums. Listening to particular records I love and then tuning the actual drums to sound as similar as possible. Dampening them in different ways. Experimenting with room sounds etc. I've definitely come pretty close but I still feel like I'm missing something.

Random examples: Suzi Quatro - "48 Crash" (the toms and snare sound incredible, so so dead, but so so full) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk6kvVGP ... re=related

David Bowie - "Star" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3L2K1us2Ai0

GG Allin - "NYC Tonight" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71-zBtT6BOM

Elton Motello - "Jet Boy Jet Girl" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KAXvTvO0TI

Or here's an example of adding reverb to that same kind of tone and sound. I love it. Rudimentary Peni - "Blissful Myth" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dmV1GoUGW4

How the hell did they do this back then?

fossiltooth · Post by **fossiltooth** » Mon May 30, 2011 2:51 pm

Although I think all of those drums sounds are kinda different, I think I know what you mean.

One common thread is that you don't hear a lot of drum buss compression or much in the way of squashed up room mics, both of which are very popular today. There's not a ton of close-mic-centrich-eavy-eq-bravado either. Some of these samples are kind of just what decently-recorded drum kits sound like before you do a whole bunch of stuff to them. Not a lot of people do that anymore.

If I had to guess, I'd say the Bowie sample is in a larg-ish room (Trident Studios maybe?) and the GG Allin sample is in a small-ish one. Either way, these sound like overheads and close mics tracked to tape without a whole bunch of other stuff going on. On the Bowie clip, I hear quite a bit of treble added to that snare, but that's about it. Not a lot of dynamic smashing or ambient trickery going on.

These things go in and out of fashion. When Television were recording Marquee Moon with Andy Johns he had them all set up with a nice big, Bohnamesque drums sound, and they just said "No. Scrap all that. We're doing something else." And that makes sense for Television. It's not about that.

Anyway, just get a well tuned kit in a room, grab some gaff tape, tea towels or moon gels; Take out a little 400hz and add a some 3-5 k and you're halfway there.

For the Rudimentary Peni stuff, along with Joy Division, there's a very different approach in play- one that often involves up-front close mics, gating, more aggressive EQ, and digital reverbs. That's a cool sound too. It's also from a time when mashed-up room mics and oodles of bus compression weren't the fashion. There's a time and place for everything, all depends on what you're going for.

If you ever want to record something like any of these bands, hell, give me a call! I'd be into it.

drumsound · Post by **drumsound** » Mon May 30, 2011 3:28 pm

I agree with what Justin has said here. THe drums themselves are tuned and treated similarly. Taped up, no bottom heads, close mics, not a lot of EQ or processing save for brightening EQ on the Bowie and some type of gated reverb (probably a gate on the SEND) on rudimentary Peni.

Start with the instrument, pull the bottom heads, muffle them up, make them really dry. Put mics close to them, record them kinda hot. Treat the space around them with blankets or gobos or whatever. Don't put the OHs too high, skip the room mics. If the snare sounds really weird, try a bottom mic too.

jkelly222 · Post by **jkelly222** » Mon May 30, 2011 4:46 pm

Yes they're different drum sounds but to me they have a very similar undertone. Good point Justin, it must have been the mindset of the engineers at the time.

I've definitely done the damping in many different ways; however, I've never tried taking off the bottom heads. I will definitely have to give that a shot. I've also done vast amounts of super close mic-ing. I love love love bottom mic-ing the snare as well!

I think I'm in the right mindset to get it right the next time I have the opportunity. Both of you guys made very good points! I had to part ways with a beautiful Tascam 16 track when I moved to New York last year. I am interning but that doesn't included any opportunities to record. So outside of that I have a friend with a Tascam 388 who is always to busy and a four track at our practice space. Unfortunately there's never a dull moment at our practice space which makes it impossible to focus in addition to the bleeding over of other bands. I haven't recorded a record for myself or anyone else since Jan 2010, what a bummer! I've also done a ton of touring and mixing though, on the bright side!

BUT my band with a record deal and a budget will be recording in August or so. I just need to find a way to record these solo songs I've been writing for well over a year!

jkelly222 · Post by **jkelly222** » Mon May 30, 2011 4:51 pm

fossiltooth wrote:
These things go in and out of fashion. When Television were recording Marquee Moon with Andy Johns he had them all set up with a nice big, Bohnamesque drums sound, and they just said "No. Scrap all that. We're doing something else." And that makes sense for Television. It's not about that.

A

I just read that Television article last week!

Gregg Juke · Post by **Gregg Juke** » Mon May 30, 2011 7:07 pm

Yeah, you guys all have it about right-- DEAD top heads, "concert toms" (no bottom heads), close mikes seomtimes right inside the drums near the back of the head, and not a lot of crazy compression, but lots of drums in the mix...

Your time-line might be a bit off (I think even in the pretty early 80's/post-Gabriel, there was a lot of gated-verb going on), but that's the idea. If you really want that cardboard sound, put rag strips underneath the heads, duck-tape the tops, and you can even line the snare and toms with Kotex (yes, it was done).

I have an old MD Mag somewhere with a bunch of engineers mike choices and recommendations for drum sounds. I seem to remember a lot of EV RE-20 on bass drum... Try doing an online search for Modern drummer articles on drum-miking from that era, there were a handful of them.

GJ

digitaldrummer · Post by **digitaldrummer** » Mon May 30, 2011 8:41 pm

and don't forget the Remo Black Dot heads.

and btw, they work great with some adhesive-backed foam weatherstrip on the underneath side.

Mike

Dr Rubberfunk · Post by **Dr Rubberfunk** » Tue May 31, 2011 6:24 am

digitaldrummer wrote:and don't forget the Remo Black Dot heads.

and btw, they work great with some adhesive-backed foam weatherstrip on the underneath side.

Mike

Or some Hydraulic heads - none more dead!

trodden · Post by **trodden** » Tue May 31, 2011 9:47 am

Rudimentary Peni, fuck yeah.... One of the greatest bands of the 80's and onward UK anarcho scene...

hearse hearse hearse.....

dsw · Post by **dsw** » Tue May 31, 2011 10:31 am

carpet the walls

Gregg Juke · Post by **Gregg Juke** » Tue May 31, 2011 10:54 am

Oh yeah, important point (see above).

Almost everything in that 70's era was done in a "drum booth," as opposed to an open room, so tight miking in a very closed space, probably no room mikes.

GJ

lefthanddoes · Post by **lefthanddoes** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:05 am

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think on a lot of those late 70s punk/rock/new wave records, they would have the snare trigger a really trebly, short noise burst with reverb on it so the snare had a sort of "T" sound. I hear something like that on all the Cars records. But I don't know how they really did it, I figure it was just a triggered gate. Or maybe it's just the bottom head mic, accentuated heavily.

Peterson Goodwyn · Post by **Peterson Goodwyn** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:40 am

Not quite the era you are looking for but Ken Scott (Bowie engineer) does mention using Kepex gates on all the close mics: http://www.soundhow.com/274/david-bowie ... recording/

Gregg Juke · Post by **Gregg Juke** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:05 am

The Cars sounds you are describing are mostly the de riguer electronic drums of the time.

Syncussion or Synares (early analog percussion synths), and later Simmons drums.

GJ

cgarges · Post by **cgarges** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:53 am

lefthanddoes wrote:Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think on a lot of those late 70s punk/rock/new wave records, they would have the snare trigger a really trebly, short noise burst with reverb on it so the snare had a sort of "T" sound. I hear something like that on all the Cars records. But I don't know how they really did it, I figure it was just a triggered gate. Or maybe it's just the bottom head mic, accentuated heavily.

It was usually a trigger off of the snare through a white noise generator. The other way to do something similar (see REM's Chronic Town EP) is to trigger the snare through a radio set to a non-broadcasting static frequency.

You know, I don't really hear Black Dots on too many of those recordings. You use to see them live a good bit, but I don't think of people as having really recorded with Black Dot heads on the drums too often. I could be totally wrong about that.

I think the room sound is a really important part of it. Even some of those records done in bigger rooms didn't really feature mics that were farther away.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

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How to get that late 70's early 80's drum sound?

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