Simple Patchbay question, need help.

[Ryan Silva]

I have never used a patch bay in my own place, but it?s time to start. Here is a basic question about the abilities of a basic stock 48 point bay. (Neutrik, DBX, Switchcraft, ect)

When using TRS insert cables (y-cables)
, are most bays able to take a TRS (Ring=out) (Tip=In), plugged into the back and break them out to the corresponding two front jacks?

The reason I ask is I have a mess of XLR(m/f) to TRS insert cables that I would like to reuse.

Thanks folks, kind of embarrassed about this one.

[Z-Plane]

I doubt it. Most jack patchbays offer full/semi normalled or isolated options between front and rear, but AFAIK its simply point-to-point i.e. whatever connection you make on one side remains the same on the other. If so then replacing your XLR plugs for jack plugs might be the only way to get insert points on the front.

[Nick Sevilla]

Hi Ryan,

an insert point is as follows:

CONSOLE Insert, which is usual ONE TRS 1/4" balanced connector.

This goes via ONE cable which is a Y cable going to two UNBALANCED connections, such as TS, or XLR unbalanced.

These go to TWO points in a patchbay, on above the other, usually the OUT, or SEND on the top hole, and the In, or RETURN, on the bottom.

these two patch points SHOULD BE FULL NORMALLED. This means that ANY connector that is inserted into the patchbay will break the signal. This is to insert EQ, compression or other processors into the console channel. This will send the full signal from and back to the console's channels, without messing things up.

On this, you need to make SURE that the processing equipment is set to UNBALANCED connections and signal levels. Otherwise you will not get the correct signal, and potentially make things sound worse.

So, in other words, NO, you cannot and should not have an insert point on ONE patchbay hole, but two.

Cheers

[Ryan Silva]

Thanks guys, I get it.

Just trying to utilize the gear I currently have, but as I suspected it will take a complete redo of my cable set up.

Thanks again

[Nick Sevilla]

Thanks guys, I get it.

Just trying to utilize the gear I currently have, but as I suspected it will take a complete redo of my cable set up.

Thanks again

Don't feel bad about doing this.

1.- you get to rethink your signal paths.
2.- you get to clean hard to reach places in your studio.
3.- you relearn stuff you forgot.

I myself just upgraded my computers' IO setup, so now I am rethinking my patchbay for the third time... At least its all 1/4 TRS. so I can tear it down and change it with relative ease.

It was two years ago last time I did this, the back of my console and racks is McNasty...

[Ryan Silva]

Thanks Nick,

I thought I had my solution all worked out, until I ran into this problem.

First my solution (maybe)

One Switchcraft 9625 (TT-DB25)

To manage my Toft ATB 16 v2:

16 channel room snake

16 channel Lynx Aurora ad/da

8-10 channels of outboard comps

6-12 channel of out board pre amps

4-8 channels of efx, reamp, cd.

MY PROBLEM:

How do I manage TRS channel insert points with a DB25 patchbay?

I have 24 of them on the Toft, do I have to use Y cables (1/4" TRS male to (2) TS females)?

It seems really messy.

Maybe I just have to stick with 1/4" formats?

Ugh this stuff gives me a headache.

[Nick Sevilla]

Hi Ryan,

I would stick to 1/4", if most of your equipment is 1/4" TRS or TS capable.
If most of it is something else, like lost of different connectors, then the DB 25 could be used, but you'd have to either make the cables or buy them.
In my case 1/4" TRS patchbays made sense, since most my equipment can use 1/4" TRS.

You can buy DB 25 to TRS cables, Hosa makes decent ones for not a lot of money.

If you really want to use the DB25 patchbay (I would not) then you will not be able to put the inserts points easily, without custom making a DB25 to TRS cable that sends and returns the signal to the console properly.
I use Samson TRS patchbays. Not expensive, easy to clean, and since you are all 1/4" in and out, no messy wiring to configure.

http://www.samsontech.com/products/prod ... rodID=1656

[Nick Sevilla]

Yes, after looking at your consoles' derriere, definitely go and get yourself all 1/4" patchbays, and save yourself the grief of the DB25 patchbay.

Toft ATB 16 16 channel console:

Line inputs = 16
MON IO ? = 16
Insert = 16
Direct Output = 16
Mic inputs = 16 XLR

64 connections 1/4"
16 XLR male connectors

Master section :

8 ST FX returns
8 Monitor returns
8 GRP INSERTS
8 GRP OUTPUTS
6 AUX masters

38 connections

Master Outputs section

2 master outputs
2 Master inserts
2 2trk returns
2 alt speaker outputs
2 main speaker outputs

10 connections

total 1/4" connections = 112
total XLR connections = 16

I would recommend getting 4 1/4" TRS patchbays, with 48 holes, 24 to a row. And one XLR patchbay for your microphones or to use the mic inputs for anything else.

This should cover the entire consoles backside, and leave you 80 connections for your outboard. You should be able to have everything on the patchbay then, and this is really the best way to utilize a patchbay. If you half ass it, you'll end up doing it later on anyway.

Cheers

[Nick Sevilla]

Lastly,

Here's how I have my patchbay set up :

http://www.nicksevilla.com/Studio_Pictu ... t-2011.pdf

Hope this helps...