Can Zildjian K hats play well with others?

[jgimbel]

I'm looking at getting a new set of hi hats in a few weeks. I'll be trying before I buy at Dale's Drum Shop in Harrisburg, PA - amazing place. But for now I've been listening to samples all over the internet. The main contenders that I've heard and most always loved:

K, K Light, K Custom Sessions, also standard A (which are traditional finish, not brilliant). Mastersounds look nice (though I have some now) but "defined" is not exactly what I'm looking for here. I want something that just sits, if that makes sense, sitting back. Heard if you make them heard.

Anyway, a drummer in here this past weekend (who had A Custom hats that sounded nice to me but a bit too high for for I want) said in our discussion about my search for new hats "be careful about getting K hats, you're going to want to replace the rest of your cymbals with Ks". At first I thought he just meant "they sound so nice, they'll put others to shame", but in further discussion he said they can make other cymbals sound cheap by comparison. I don't take his word as the end-all, and there's a good chance that the ones I like the sound of will be perfect when I get back here, simply for the fact that I'm a lot more experienced now. However, since I won't be able to hear the hats with my specific cymbals it just raised a slight concern. I've got an 18" A Custom Crash, a 22" A Custom Medium Ride, and an 18" Sabian crash that I actually found in the trash with a 1" chunk out of it. I believe it's an AAX. I've never loved Sabians as much as Zildians, but you'd be amazed how close this one sounds to the A Custom crash, just a bit lower in tone. Sounds perfect with it. These will not be the last cymbals I ever buy (the hats might!) but realistically changing out my other cymbals isn't a priority since they sound really nice as is and don't cause any issues come mix-time. I don't expect to be disappointed by whatever choice I end up making, just wanted to check out some experiences on here.

Has anyone ever experienced K hats being difficult to pair with other cymbals that aren't Ks? Specifically other Zildjians?

[lefthanddoes]

I'd say be careful, maybe try to borrow your friend's or something and try them with your cymbals. Every time I get a new cymbal I don't test it out enough and then find out it doesn't gel. Now I have like 5 crashes and I only use 2 of them and nothing sounds quite right. But I might just be an idiot. I'd say a particularly important factor would be matching up with that brilliant, sweet A-custom sound. Darker/flatter hats might not work as well... maybe. But definitely, bottom line, I'd say find some way to find out for sure.

[witchfeet]

Our Drummer just got a K dark ride and a K thin crash for a good deal. They aren't very loud compared to my 15" quick beats, 18" Paiste 2002 crash, and 21" Zildjian A rock ride that he was using before. I like the Ks but they aren't really my cup of tea for live use. The Ks sound nice, but they are just super mellow. I think they'll be good for recording though. I have no experience with the hats, but I bet they are a lot more chill and less cutting than your A Customs.

[LupineSound]

I don't think K's blend well with A's or other cymbals, in general. Maybe you can find the HH or HHX that would work. Some vintage A's might blend as well. I went through the experience of playing A's to Paiste 2002's to K's. I've settled on K's, but the drawback is that they are not as loud. I don't see that as a drawback, personally, because now the guitars can turn down because my cymbals aren't washing them out. So the overall volume is lower and we can all hear each other better. BUT in a live setting it might make your band quieter than the others, which kinda sucks. I'd rather be quieter and have better timbre than be louder and harsher-sounding. Depends what your going for. A metal band might prefer the opposite.

[jgimbel]

One thing to note, these hats will never be used live. Also, FWIW, despite the fact that the A Custom crash has a brilliant finish, I've had it for a number of years and I don't polish it, and it's far, far less bright than I expect from a brilliant cymbal. I'm not sure if I'd say it's dark but borders on it - it doesn't reach that "glass shattering", almost distorted highs kind of sound that a lot of cymbals do, which is what I really like about it.

Also I don't have any friends who own K hats (or many drummer, or recording friends at all actually), and the hats that I own aren't A Mastersounds. The drummer that was in here had standard A Custom hats, not Mastersound. His A Custom hats weren't bad volume-wise, but they did sound a little bit high to me. And from what I can find in samples (Memphis Drum Shop on Youtube, for example) the Mastersound versions of most cymbals generally are a similar sound to the non-Mastersound, but a bit louder and more defined/brighter. The "drawback" of K's not being as loud is a definite plus to me, just what I'm looking for actually. So A Mastersounds or A Custom Mastersounds seem like they may be a bit bright for my taste/kit. But if the consensus seems to really be that Ks might be far too dark or quiet, then maybe K Mastersounds would be a decent in between, because they're a bit brighter and more defined than the other K series hats. Not as bright and defined as even traditional A's. But I'm concerned about the traditional A's being higher sounding than my taste. Hm!

[dsw]

so pack up your brass and take it with you when you go to shop so you can hear them all together.

honestly I don't know how people buy instruments online with out trying them first.

[HeavyHand]

and it's far, far less bright than I expect from a brilliant cymbal. I'm not sure if I'd say it's dark but borders on it - it doesn't reach that "glass shattering", almost distorted highs kind of sound that a lot of cymbals do, which is what I really like about it.

generally, brilliant cymbals have a slightly darker/warmer tone than traditionals. because of the way the brilliant finish is achieved (high pressure buffing), the peaks of the lathe grooves in the cymbal are smoothed out and that reduces the high end that the cymbal produces.

but the only way to tell is to play them with your actual cymbals and see how it all gels. cymbals very greatly from one 18" A custom crash to another 18" A custom crash. ridiculously so! i cant buy a cymbal with out hearing/playing it.

side note: i swear that companies save the worst sounding cymbals for warranty replacement because they know no one would buy it if they got to hear it. i have gotten so many awful sounding cymbals back from a warranty replacement. and there's nothing you can do about it.

[HeavyHand]

just found a great example you can't buy these things blind...

http://mycymbal.com/index.php?main_page ... ts_id=3910

its a comparison of two of the same cymbal. i love one and hate the other.

[Producer/Engineer]

so pack up your brass and take it with you when you go to shop so you can hear them all together.

Whoop... there it is ! +1

[jgimbel]

Just want to reiterate since a few have mentioned it, I am not buying blindly online! I'll be taking a trip out to Dale's Drum Shop, which is an amazing place in Harrisburg, PA. It's a house converted into a drum store. Huge room of drum sets, a room of all cymbals, even a full wall of snares and a wall of sticks/mallets. I bought my first drum kit there, and ended up buying my next kit there, and all my cymbals over the years. Everyone who works there are drummers and really nice guys.

I'll give them a call to see what would be a less busy day for them so I can set up my cymbals and a snare I use often too. When I bought my newer kit there we set it all up there to try it out, so chances are they'd be okay with me bringing my cymbals. I'm very aware of the variation between two of the same model of cymbals, though it's hard to say there aren't similarities between them. The sound of them with my specific cymbals is for me to figure out, not trying to get someone to make that decision for me. I just wanted to post here to see if anyone had issues with pairing K hats before.

[percussion boy]

I use 13" K hats all the time . . . with Paiste 602s, Paiste 2002s, A Zildjians. They get along fine.

If you're gonna do the whole cymbal matching thing, you might wanna try riding the hats open and half-open at the store, then crashing your crashes and riding your ride. Closed hat is really its own instrument, like kick or snare, but sloshy opened hats are little crash cymbals.

Hope this helps.

[DrummerMan]

I use 13" K hats all the time . . . with Paiste 602s, Paiste 2002s, A Zildjians. They get along fine.

If you're gonna do the whole cymbal matching thing, you might wanna try riding the hats open and half-open at the store, then crashing your crashes and riding your ride. Closed hat is really its own instrument, like kick or snare, but sloshy opened hats are little crash cymbals.

Hope this helps.

+1
smart advice.

[jgimbel]

I use 13" K hats all the time . . . with Paiste 602s, Paiste 2002s, A Zildjians. They get along fine.

If you're gonna do the whole cymbal matching thing, you might wanna try riding the hats open and half-open at the store, then crashing your crashes and riding your ride. Closed hat is really its own instrument, like kick or snare, but sloshy opened hats are little crash cymbals.

Hope this helps.

Really interesting point, thanks for that wisdom. I'm not a huge fan of the closed hat sound of what I'm using now, but I haven't found it terribly hard to find a pair that sounds nice closed, it's open hat that really displays glaring differences. In fact it's the open had sound that's made me feel like A Customs (and maybe A's) just sound a bit too high for me.

I appreciate everyone's comments here. I haven't been on the lookout for cymbals for a while, and I've been drowning myself in samples and reviews, and actually having a discussion/comments from experience from the board I trust helps reign me in. I should be making a decision in about two weeks or so when I can head to the store.

[percussion boy]

I'm not a huge fan of the closed hat sound of what I'm using now, but I haven't found it terribly hard to find a pair that sounds nice closed, it's open hat that really displays glaring differences. In fact it's the open had sound that's made me feel like A Customs (and maybe A's) just sound a bit too high for me.

Yeah, closed hat sound certainly MATTERS, especially for recording -- it's just that you probably can't go wrong in terms of how your closed hats sound relative to your other cymbals.

fwiw, I felt like getting small (13") K's improved my closed hat sound. An interesting brighter sound is the reissues of the 602 Paiste hats, but they may be pricey. Your eers will lead you.

Good luck!

[jgimbel]

I'm not a huge fan of the closed hat sound of what I'm using now, but I haven't found it terribly hard to find a pair that sounds nice closed, it's open hat that really displays glaring differences. In fact it's the open had sound that's made me feel like A Customs (and maybe A's) just sound a bit too high for me.

Yeah, closed hat sound certainly MATTERS, especially for recording -- it's just that you probably can't go wrong in terms of how your closed hats sound relative to your other cymbals.

fwiw, I felt like getting small (13") K's improved my closed hat sound. An interesting brighter sound is the reissues of the 602 Paiste hats, but they may be pricey. Your eers will lead you.

Good luck!

Thanks for the help percussion boy, seriously you're a big help. With my own music I tend to play a LOT of closed hi hat, but that's obviously not really where the offending stuff is when people are playing here. So you probably just gave me the ability to make a MUCH wiser decision. "Brighter" tends to not be what I lean toward since I'm in a small-ish space, it's easy to have something overbearing here, but I'll definitely give them a try. And 13"s too, I never thought of that. I don't mind pricey, I'm going to be bringing enough for new K's if I want them, even those 602s aren't too much more. Realistically since I'm almost as much of a guitar player as I am a drummer and the hats are for me and defaults for others, the Paiste's might be a bit out of my budget, but if it saves countless recordings by simply being the right sound then it's worth it to me.

In other news, I called Dale's today about bringing my own cymbals, and the guy that picked up said they absolutely encourage that, and they'll get me set up with a drumset and all my cymbals and I can just try everything out. The guy must've called me "brother" 5 times in our 45 second conversation. I did ask him if he had heard anything about people having issues with the K's (everyone there is absurdly honest, it's crazy!), and he said basically he hadn't really heard of that but that, like we had talked about on here, there's so much variation between any two of the same model of hats that it's really hard or impossible to give a generalization like that they don't work well with other hats. I'm still kind of leaning toward standard Ks or K lights, but I'm going in there with closed eyes and open ears.