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vvv
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Post by vvv » Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:13 pm

Why doya's s'pose the photog guy has 2 cameras?

As for the weapons, mebbe they were afraid Nugent would be taking a tour?
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Post by CraigS63 » Sat Aug 27, 2011 8:38 am

Wood doesn't just grow on trees, you know.

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Post by comfortstarr » Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:28 am

norton wrote:I think it's funny that the knee jerk reaction is to get pissed at the FBI, and not be pissed at Gibson. this isn't the first time they've been slapped down about this.

No argument. This is in no way a pressing issue....trading in illegal wood.... But I would be surprised if Gibson wasn't aware of what they were doing.

For the record......to me it's far more ridiculous that the atf and FBI waste their time on a "war on drugs". I'd actually like to see the rainforest preserved. Prisons full of small time pot dealers. Now That's bad for the economy.
Amen. My thoughts exactly. And if you don't understand the issues involved regarding the harvesting of rare woods and the impact of said activities on the environment and sustainable economies... you need to do a little self-educating.

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Post by Cyan421 » Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:18 am

My wife is a photog, at weddings she carries two camera bodies, one with a short/wide angle lens, and one with a long lens.

Its like having a sm57 and an at4050 on the same guitar.
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Post by chris harris » Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:52 pm

fossiltooth wrote:What's up with this faux anti-government malarky recently? It's one of these silly things we do as a culture: most folks who are anti-government when their opposing side is in power, are just as pro-government when their own side is in power. Do you think current tea partiers will be at anti-government rallies the next time republicans are in the white house passing legislation to further increase executive powers?

(I now feel obliged to mention that I think the far-far-left is just as silly.)
Don't.... You shouldn't feel obliged to draw some lame false equivalency between the far right and the far left. For one thing, the far, far left, that you claim is "just as silly", for the most part, doesn't exist. And, where it does, it's been effectively marginalized. So, don't ever feel guilty about marginalizing the lunatics in the "tea party movement".... It's what needs to happen. It's not really necessary to try and balance your criticism.

People who are "anti-government", for the most part, are either just outright fucking idiots, or they operate under the false assumption that we're all born with the same opportunities in this world. It's the one big flaw in the Libertarian philosophy. And, it's sad that it's the only part of the Libertarian philosophy that modern day Republicans have co-opted.
fossiltooth wrote:Anyway, my point is not to side with one party or another. It's this: JesusHerbertHooverChrist! This is not a political issue. It's an investigation into a company that has been accused of breaking the law. Are they innocent? Are they guilty? We don't know yet. Seriously. Not every little thing needs to be blindly politicized. Especially not on an internet messageboard about microphones.
The real kicker is, this is finally an example of the government holding a big corporation responsible for environmental abuses. The feds should be applauded here.

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Post by chris harris » Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:27 pm

The way Gibson is handling this is fucking shameful. Media blitz to try and whip up anti-government furor.... Fucking shameful. Whether or not the law says that Customs agents can require you to account for the origin of all wood on your guitar, this case they're building against Gibson has NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT. This is a case of a big corporation (allegedly) doctoring import documents. The government isn't going after collectors, or people traveling with their guitars. But, because Gibson points out that they COULD do that, all of the sudden, focus is shifted from whether or not Gibson is engaging in illegal importation of banned woods, to "Oh Gawd! Big Brother is coming after my ukelele!" Fucking shameful.

The CEO of Gibson claims that shutting down production for 1 day due to the raid ended up costing the company $1MILLION. FUCK THEM AND THEIR SHITTY GUITARS!

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Nick Sevilla
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Post by Nick Sevilla » Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:28 pm

Hey Chris,

I'm a Repbertcrat.

How should I pan the drumkit gun-shots?
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Post by chris harris » Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:33 pm

The anti-government pity party for Gibson can safely be MUTED.

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Post by lacquer_monkey » Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:54 pm

Just fyi, the gubmint is also after handmakers. A whole shitload of government agencies and regulations are involved including, of all things, Homeland Security (or is that Das Fathaland Security). Other agencies are U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, National Marine Fisheries Service, Customs, Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service. Some of the laws involved are CITES, U.S Endangered Species Act (whether the species is endangered or not), Lacey Act, and Customs regulations. Antique items, curiously enough, are not exempt from harassment. All guitar and other stringed instrument makers are currently considered to be guilty by vocation. As opposed to what we are taught in Social Studies, instrument makers are currently considered guilty until proven innocent. And that is a little wider view of the current problems...

Further insights can be gained through the Guild of American Luthiers.
uh... what??

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Nick Sevilla
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Post by Nick Sevilla » Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:28 pm

lacquer_monkey wrote:Just fyi, the gubmint is also after handmakers. A whole shitload of government agencies and regulations are involved including, of all things, Homeland Security (or is that Das Fathaland Security). Other agencies are U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, National Marine Fisheries Service, Customs, Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service. Some of the laws involved are CITES, U.S Endangered Species Act (whether the species is endangered or not), Lacey Act, and Customs regulations. Antique items, curiously enough, are not exempt from harassment. All guitar and other stringed instrument makers are currently considered to be guilty by vocation. As opposed to what we are taught in Social Studies, instrument makers are currently considered guilty until proven innocent. And that is a little wider view of the current problems...

Further insights can be gained through the Guild of American Luthiers.
So in the end, a guitar will be as illegal to own as an assault weapon.

Fantastic. Is polka dot underwear next?
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Post by alcoyot » Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:46 pm

Nick Sevilla wrote:
lacquer_monkey wrote:
Fantastic. Is polka dot underwear next?
Dude, its cool, just make sure you carry around your paperwork which proves exactly where the polka dot underwear came from. Then you'll be fine.

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Post by chris harris » Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:50 pm

lacquer_monkey wrote:Just fyi, the gubmint is also after handmakers. A whole shitload of government agencies and regulations are involved including, of all things, Homeland Security (or is that Das Fathaland Security). Other agencies are U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, National Marine Fisheries Service, Customs, Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service. Some of the laws involved are CITES, U.S Endangered Species Act (whether the species is endangered or not), Lacey Act, and Customs regulations. Antique items, curiously enough, are not exempt from harassment. All guitar and other stringed instrument makers are currently considered to be guilty by vocation. As opposed to what we are taught in Social Studies, instrument makers are currently considered guilty until proven innocent. And that is a little wider view of the current problems...

Further insights can be gained through the Guild of American Luthiers.
It's not really a "wider view". It sounds like the same irrational, paranoid, hyperbolic bullshit to me. Which hand-makers are being investigated currently? I'd love to read about specific examples.
How often do hand makers source wood? How often does a guitar pass through customs? If this was anything other than hyperbolic paranoia, there would be loads of documented evidence of this widespread government harassment.

Who's been arrested? Who's been wrongly harassed?

A bunch of dudes who care more about guitars than the environment or people's lives, pissing and moaning irrationally on messageboards, about what the government COULD do, is nothing but group think paranoia.

You do not have the freedom to carelessly exploit the world's resources.

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Post by The Scum » Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:41 am

It's interesting to see Henry Juszkiewicz' reaction here.

From his past record, you'd think he'd be into anything that makes his guitars more rare or exclusive, because it means he can raise retail prices again.

Of course, such a price increase is that much more effective if it's been preceeded by a media blitz of some sort.

Look for the silver lining, Hank.

I'd be curious to hear what our own Bruce Harvie has to say about the matter.
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Post by KennyLusk » Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:01 am

Nick Sevilla wrote:
Fantastic. Is polka dot underwear next?
Unless you're a woman, if your skivvies have polka dots you should be arrested anyway, right? :wink:
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Nick Sevilla
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Post by Nick Sevilla » Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:51 am

Look,

I own a ranch with protected species of trees, Chris. I've had to put the owner of a local wood mill in jail, after it was discovered he had illegally taken a few trees from my place. So I have been in the dealing end of the law. It took 5 years after the fact to get the guy out of business, and cost me and my family about 50,000us in legal costs.

The issue with Gibson and the FBI claims that Gibson might have forbidden wood is that the FBI stopping only one mfr. It's not going to do anything to stop the taking of illegal trees. I am not against the FBI looking. An I am not a Gibson Fanboy. I use Fenders. Even though Fenders had to move their facilities to Mexico to avoid the EPA laws against spraying nitrocellulose, a known carcinogenic, in the late 1970s.
So, should I surrender my Stratocasters because of this?

And what about Chinese made instruments, which if colored red, may contain too much lead? Or Apple computers, or any computer maker which manufactures overseas, and pollutes too much in countries which have nit stringent environmental laws?

We'd end up living in caves, using no electricity.

No, I think that if we as a musical community are to do anything, it is to first have Facts, then organize boycotts of companies that do things we believe are not right. I propose that if Gibson IS found guilty, THEN if anyone feels strongly enough, go ahead and organize a boycott against them.
Me, I am going back to school, and phasing out audio engineering. It's been fun, but it is time to move on for the sake of myself, and more importantly, my family.

Cheers
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