Upgrade my monitors, or upgrade my interface?

[Shellacattack]

Neither my monitors nor my interface are that great... what should I upgrade first? My current setup is below. If there's something else I should put my money towards rather than monitors or interface, please let me know.

If audio interface, what are some good interfaces in the $1500 and below range that will give me at least 8 inputs, but hopefully 16, and will work with PT9?

If monitors, I'm thinking $600-$800 range.

DAW: PC with PT 8 M-powered
Audio interface: Delta 1010, with breakout box
Monitors: Event Project Studio 6
Preamps: API 512c (two), Mackie 1642 VLZ Pro (eight)
Plugins: Bundle that came with PT?s. Also have demos of Massey plugins.

Mics:
sm57 (1)
sm7b (1)
421 (1)
Audix D6 (1)
MXL 604 (2)
AT2020 (1)
Karma K35 (1)

The Delta 1010 gets the job done, but when compared with a friend's PT HD system, it's clearly nowhere near it. When I got my 512c's last year, I A/B'ed them with the Mackie. There was a very slight difference, but nothing magical. From that point on, I've been looking at different interfaces.. but I'm totally lost.

Am I kidding myself by thinking spending $1500 on an interface will give me noticeably different results compared to my Delta 1010?

Thanks for your help guys.

[Wilson]

Update the speakers and in the process update the room you're working in. Update = acoustically treat your space.

[Ryan Silva]

I would say your reference monitors (and yes room treatment). The Delta 1010's just seem to stand the test of time. It's really hard to get a solid 8 channel AD/DA without paying for a bunch of useless junk nowadays. I worked on a Delta 1010 for years, and it took spending thousands more (Lynx) before it made sense to upgrade.

Focal 6's maybe?

[Scodiddly]

The Delta units are old, but still seem pretty solid. I had one of the smaller cards, and never a complaint about it.

Were you auditioning your friend's PT rig in your room, or a different room?

I'd seriously look at the room first, monitors second.

EDIT: I have a pair of the Event PS-8 monitors, and they're pretty decent but (like many others) there's a bit of a hole in the mids. Vocals end up sounding a bit distant in the mix on these speakers. Otherwise I'm fairly happy with them.

[chris harris]

You seriously only heard a very slight difference between your API and Mackie Preamps?!?!?!

Even with your current setup, that should be a quite noticeable difference.

I'd suggest saving your money and spending more time training your ears to hear the difference that your investment will make.

[Scodiddly]

You seriously only heard a very slight difference between your API and Mackie Preamps?!?!?!

Even with your current setup, that should be a quite noticeable difference.

I'd suggest saving your money and spending more time training your ears to hear the difference that your investment will make.

I'm a well known "mic pre" skeptic. I disagree. Acoustics and mic choice will kill preamp differences just about every time.

[Ryan Silva]

The Delta units are old, but still seem pretty solid. I had one of the smaller cards, and never a complaint about it.

Were you auditioning your friend's PT rig in your room, or a different room?

I'd seriously look at the room first, monitors second.

EDIT: I have a pair of the Event PS-8 monitors, and they're pretty decent but (like many others) there's a bit of a hole in the mids. Vocals end up sounding a bit distant in the mix on these speakers. Otherwise I'm fairly happy with them.

It's true, you might only here a slight difference between your API and Mackie pres, but the difference between a treated, well setup room, and a haphazard dry walled box, should really change how you do things.

On the other hand, you may not be hearing the beauty of your APIs (great transient response) because of the hole in mids you speak off.

Just a thought.

[kslight]

I'm going to go with...broken APIs. I have a small Behringer mixer I will trade you for them....


In all seriousness I'd look at your room, your monitors, and then your interface...but in the price range that you suggested upgrading your interface probably won't be a night and day difference. Maybe also look into an interface with only digital I/O and use external conversion. For example I use an Alesis HD24XR as my converters through ADAT on my interface. Great value for good A/D and D/A versus 8/16ch at a time with Apogee, Lynx, etc...

[Z-Plane]

The Delta 1010 gets the job done, but when compared with a friend's PT HD system, it's clearly nowhere near it.

Hang on, what kind of test did you make between the two?

[Nick Sevilla]

Hi,

I say only update your monitors.

I would recommend what I use: JBL LSR4328P

http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/General/P ... d=28&MId=5

I've used mine for over a year and they never disappoint, and the mixes translate pretty well to other systems. And do keep your current speakers, as you know them well. You can find on here how I built a cheap passive balanced switch to go between two sets of speakers with one toggle switch.

Cheers

[chris harris]

I'm a well known "mic pre" skeptic. I disagree. Acoustics and mic choice will kill preamp differences just about every time.

I'll disagree right back. The difference between an API and Mackie preamp should be quite clear and obvious, even if you're listening to an sm57 through iPod earbuds. If you can't hear the difference, you should be more skeptical of your ears than the gear.

I'm not saying that acoustic treatment isn't necessary. I've invested thousands in it for my studio. And, converters are definitely important, too. I've spent thousands on those, too.

But, I also used Mackie and API preamps for years. And, the difference isn't remotely subtle.

[chris harris]

It's true, you might only here a slight difference between your API and Mackie pres, but the difference between a treated, well setup room, and a haphazard dry walled box, should really change how you do things.

On the other hand, you may not be hearing the beauty of your APIs (great transient response) because of the hole in mids you speak off.

Just a thought.

I guess it's possible that the room acoustics made it difficult to hear the differences. But, a quick test with headphones should have made the differences between the two pres pretty obvious. It's not a subtle difference between, API & Mackie preamps. This isn't one of those situations where you pay twelve times as much for a 2% increase in quality. The difference is easily noticeable.

[Shellacattack]

Well my "control room" is definitely not in a space that's conducive to tracking/mixing; but's it's my only option. I'm in the basement... some walls are concrete, some are drywall, low ceilings..a lot of different angles. Even my monitors are on my actual desk; I don't have the space to get them on stands behind the desk. I make sure I'm about 5 feet from them when listening back, and I also monitor with AKG K240's.

Hang on, what kind of test did you make between the two?

The "test" was me recording some stuff at my old place, thinking they sounded eh, ok, and then taking them to his place...where they sounded like tiny tiny garbage. He had Adam monitors, I don't recall which ones, but they look similar to the new A77X.

Do you guys have any simple solutions for treating the room? I thought about a blanket on the wall, or foam between the speakers and wall - not crammed in between them, but just something to dampen the space behind them. I fear that any of these easy solutions will create more problems than they solve.

The difference between an API and Mackie preamp should be quite clear and obvious, even if you're listening to an sm57 through iPod earbuds. If you can't hear the difference, you should be more skeptical of your ears than the gear.

There were obvious changes in SNR, and the sound "cleared" up, but the change wasn't as drastic as say going from the Mackie pres to a Neve 1073. Even then, I do find that changing mics, and adjusting mic placement really seems to affect the sound more than pres, as Scodiddly mentioned. Basically, I was expecting a Wow moment when I recorded with the API's, and I didn't get it.

I'm going to go with...broken APIs. I have a small Behringer mixer I will trade you for them....

Hahahah, I really enjoyed this. I'm up really early today, and kinda zonked out, and this still made me laugh out loud!

[chris harris]

Even then, I do find that changing mics, and adjusting mic placement really seems to affect the sound more than pres, as Scodiddly mentioned.

Well, this will depend heavily on what microphones and preamps you're talking about, and your skill at mic placement.

Record a simple song with several tracks using only the Mackie. Then, do the same thing using only the API. Listen to how the tracks mix together. Then, let me know if you have a "wow moment".

Anyway, based on what additional info you provided, I doubt that new monitors or new converters will help your situation. It seems like you can't properly hear what's happening in your control room. You should look into investing in some OC 703 to make some corner traps.

While I think that the idea of being a "mic pre skeptic" is comical, I do agree that you'll see more improvement from $1000 invested in acoustic treatments than you will from $1000 invested in new monitors or converters, or even microphones or mic pres.

[Nick Sevilla]

Well my "control room" is definitely not in a space that's conducive to tracking/mixing; but's it's my only option. I'm in the basement... some walls are concrete, some are drywall, low ceilings..a lot of different angles. Even my monitors are on my actual desk; I don't have the space to get them on stands behind the desk. I make sure I'm about 5 feet from them when listening back, and I also monitor with AKG K240's.

Hang on, what kind of test did you make between the two?

The "test" was me recording some stuff at my old place, thinking they sounded eh, ok, and then taking them to his place...where they sounded like tiny tiny garbage. He had Adam monitors, I don't recall which ones, but they look similar to the new A77X.

Do you guys have any simple solutions for treating the room? I thought about a blanket on the wall, or foam between the speakers and wall - not crammed in between them, but just something to dampen the space behind them. I fear that any of these easy solutions will create more problems than they solve.

The difference between an API and Mackie preamp should be quite clear and obvious, even if you're listening to an sm57 through iPod earbuds. If you can't hear the difference, you should be more skeptical of your ears than the gear.

There were obvious changes in SNR, and the sound "cleared" up, but the change wasn't as drastic as say going from the Mackie pres to a Neve 1073. Even then, I do find that changing mics, and adjusting mic placement really seems to affect the sound more than pres, as Scodiddly mentioned. Basically, I was expecting a Wow moment when I recorded with the API's, and I didn't get it.

I'm going to go with...broken APIs. I have a small Behringer mixer I will trade you for them....

Hahahah, I really enjoyed this. I'm up really early today, and kinda zonked out, and this still made me laugh out loud!

Hi Shellacattack,

I'll only comment on the two red colored comments.

Try to sit so that you are about three(3) feet from your monitors, and set your monitoring level to around 80 dB SPL.This will help in your listening accuracy. An when mixing, DO NOT CHANGE THE MONITOR LEVELS.

You're right, in that was not really a test. A friend of mine had the Delta 1010 for many years, and he did a great job with them. A better test is for you to listen to A LOT of your favorite music through your setup, at the position and level I suggested, and afterwards listen to your recordings to hear differences between music you know, and what you have recorded. I guarantee you will be surprised.

Cheers