Loud guitars vs. Big guitars

losthighway · Post by **losthighway** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:16 am

Neil Weir wrote:I'd also take a DI post-fuzz. It's amazing what a fuzz DI track can do to bring gnarly midrange forward in the mix...

That's a good idea. I've done it for bass, but I want to do that more with guitar.

Gregg Juke · Post by **Gregg Juke** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 4:57 pm

>>>>I like the rattling snare idea. You could move a snare drum within earshot of the mic.<<<<

You mean that sound everyone's always trying to get out of their drum tracks?

GJ

vvv · Post by **vvv** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:09 pm

(Listen to the first Gutterball record, the rattles is beautiful.)

maggot · Post by **maggot** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:58 pm

Gregg Juke wrote:>>>>I like the rattling snare idea. You could move a snare drum within earshot of the mic.<<<<

You mean that sound everyone's always trying to get out of their drum tracks?

GJ

Precisely! I was listening to a drum track for a song I was working on, wondering why the bass drum sounded so freakin' awesome, and I figured out it was because the kick was rattling the snares - not too much, but just enough.

coolnm57 · Post by **coolnm57** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:12 pm

Having searched for fuzzy Hendrix-esque explosion sounds out of my gear for years, here are a few thoughts and +1's from previous posts.

Small amp, low output pickups (tele, strat, vintage hum), cranked, SM57. (+1)

Double bass with whatever the guitar is playing. (+1)

Prefader mono reverb sends.

Don't put anything on top of the guitar as far as timing goes or pan position is concerned. Especially widely panned overheads.

Don't overcompress or double, as these give you big guitars and not loud guitars.

It's also a decent concept to add snare or feedback after the fact. I personally would never do this, and recommend just playing loud as hell and allowing these things to occur naturally.

But yeah man, amen on nabbing this sound... Blur is good stuff.

Ken96 · Post by **Ken96** » Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:01 pm

fwiw, I recently tracked a punk band. The guitarist had a cheap Crate half stack. I used a SM57 about 3" off of the grill, moving it off axis until we were happy. I then placed an i5 about three feet out. The guitarist wanted the same thing you want- "loud" not "big." Needless to say, cheap guitar through cheap amp = crappy tone. I ended up running the SM57 track back out through a first-gen Rat pedal and into a 10-watt no-name amp and re-recorded it with a single SM57. It was so fuzzed out and distorted that when I mixed it with the original tracks, it sound LOUD like a chainsaw. The guitar player was happy, he said it sounded like Johnny Ramone. Just a thought.

Now getting it to sit in the mix is another story.

christiannokes · Post by **christiannokes** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:15 pm

Interesting thread.

Big is like multiple tracks of guitar mixed to sound like a symphony...or that's how I imagine it...and I think I remember seeing a Butch Vig interview where he said that he tried to do just that on all of Nevermind.

I listened to Chinese Bombs and it sounded like 1 track or a couple of tracks with no fx effects if that makes any sense- maybe like compression/eq.

That sounds loud to me because of the break up in the amp and because of the feedback as well.

christiannokes · Post by **christiannokes** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:22 pm

An idea- if you get that loudness but feel like it's too small you could try making 2 or 3 copies of the guitar track and eqing and panning and maybe scoot the track/add delay.

As I am listening to Chinese bombs again I feel like there is some width to that loud guitar.

Gregg Juke · Post by **Gregg Juke** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:16 pm

>>>>As I am listening to Chinese bombs again I feel like there is some width to that loud guitar.<<<<

So maybe "loud" can be "big" after all?

GJ

smokincan · Post by **smokincan** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 3:21 pm

Nothing says loud like power tubes!!

shakestheclown · Post by **shakestheclown** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:06 pm

christiannokes wrote:An idea- if you get that loudness but feel like it's too small you could try making 2 or 3 copies of the guitar track and eqing and panning and maybe scoot the track/add delay.

This sounds like an awful idea that can only lead to phasey nightmares and mono incompatibility.

christiannokes · Post by **christiannokes** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:22 am

I know what you mean- you definitely need to be using your ears to get it to not sound crappy.

Dakota · Post by **Dakota** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:33 am

As in "sounding like something is breaking or blowing up"

Prescription Electronics "Experience" fuzz. Hard to get it to ever do the same thing twice, but very easy to get it to sound like something is breaking and melting down. Viva chaos.

Tech 21 XXL distortion - generally smooth and sweet in medium settings, but has a cool so-called "warp" knob that does mostly even-order harmonics to the left and odd-order harmonics to the right. Hard right, it gets Rust Never Sleeps/Dinosaur Junior "dying amps" blowout sounds. I like.

Stuff you wouldn't ordinarily distort, most definitely including digital devices. You never know til you hear it. Once got a ferocious bass sound by massively overdriving an Alesis Midiverb II. Should not have worked, but it did sound rippingly glorious. Dangerous, stuff breaking sound.

Old tube reel to reels with built in speakers can make some great "blowup" sounds.

Overdrive some boom boxes. Some nursery room intercoms. Sometimes the sound of stuff breaking is indeed the sound of stuff breaking.

Dakota · Post by **Dakota** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:51 am

Oh, and lay an open speaker on its back (no grill cloth in the way) and shred some odd scraps of tin foil and lay loose on the speaker, experiment with size and quantity of scraps - bottle caps even, any small metallic trash you don't think is going to risk the cone too much - and let the speaker make the trash rattle and jump around. Definitely translates as a "something is dangerously broken" sound. Similar idea to African thumb pianos with bottle caps and metal scraps loosely adhered to the sound board. Snare-ish, but raspier and unpredictable.

the finger genius · Post by **the finger genius** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:41 pm

ashcat_lt wrote:Fletcher-Munson? A little touch of "scooping" might help.

That's the key for me. Take the frequencies that the ear hears as louder and use 'em.

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Loud guitars vs. Big guitars

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