Unusual gear advice: TLM 102 vs. MA KM-69 (maybe KM184?)

jgimbel · Post by **jgimbel** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:04 pm

blungo2 wrote:not that i know anything, but afaik, freq charts often aren't that much of a clue to a what a mic actually sounds like. i'd even go so far as to say they can be downright misleading.

yep.

{} · Post by {} » Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:55 pm

Why not just save up and get a decent used KM84? They can sometimes be had for around a grand (which is right about the price of a KM69).

blungo2 · Post by **blungo2** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:44 am

One thing i was wondering, i dunno if the 102 would be detailed enough acoustic guitar? Maybe, but i haven't tried it because the ts-1 and line cm3s work so well for that.
You were going to use it on acoustic as well, no?

jgimbel · Post by **jgimbel** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:54 am

{}, I've considered that, but I've had a really hard time finding one for anywhere near $1000. The cheapest I've been able to find them are $1400-$1800, and while I want to get the best sound I can, this also isn't my full time job and spending twice that amount for a pair of mics isn't doable for me yet. And with potential maintenance on that, plus the lengthy search for two of them during which I've got studio maintenance purchases to worry about, I just don't think I can. Hopefully at some point, just not yet.

blungo2, I'd be using it for acoustic if it were nice there. I'm not too unhappy with the acoustic sounds I'm getting, and mostly concerned with replacing my overhead mics, I just figure I'd like some mics that aren't ONLY good as overheads (which would be pretty strange anyway!). FWIW there's a project I've listened to where the 102 was used on acoustic guitar and vocals, and I thought they both really sounded great. I talked to the artist (who recorded it) and he said he used a bit of compression and reverb but little or nothing across the board for EQ.

blungo2 · Post by **blungo2** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:27 am

oh, that's good to know about the 102 on acoustic guitar, i'll give it a try sometime.

{} · Post by {} » Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:22 pm

Well check out these completed ebay listings, both of these KM84s went for well under a grand.

This one went for $777.00:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Neumann-KM-84i- ... 500wt_1363

This one went for $860.00
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Neumann-KM-84-H ... 500wt_1363

Both of them were in perfect working order, but not perfect cosmetically.

Anyway, all I'm saying is if you want a KM84, get a KM84. No other mic is going to sound like that (especially not a 102) and they can be had in your budget. If you take good care of it, it won't require maintenance, and it'll only increase in value

jgimbel · Post by **jgimbel** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:34 pm

{} wrote:Well check out these completed ebay listings, both of these KM84s went for well under a grand.

This one went for $777.00:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Neumann-KM-84i- ... 500wt_1363

This one went for $860.00
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Neumann-KM-84-H ... 500wt_1363

Both of them were in perfect working order, but not perfect cosmetically.

Anyway, all I'm saying is if you want a KM84, get a KM84. No other mic is going to sound like that (especially not a 102) and they can be had in your budget. If you take good care of it, it won't require maintenance, and it'll only increase in value

Well I'll keep an eye out for them, but while those two are a really great price, the trend I'm seeing (and have seen) in active and completed listings has had them more around $1200-$1600. The idea of buying a vintage mic on ebay scares me a bit too. I've always done well with ebay, but it's just a big purchase to make with that kind of risk. So the chance of needing maintenance is higher in that case, so I'd potentially be paying more (for the original mics) and maybe needing maintenance, when really any of these pairs are a stretch for me. I wasn't referring to maintenance needed because of my care of it, I baby my equipment because I want it to last, I meant repairs from buying a mic that needed work. So repairs rather than maintenance, I misspoke. But I'll consider it more heavily and maybe just have to see if the mics I'm using now hold up well enough that I could afford to just save up the cash and sit on it a while and wait for a good price on one. Thanks for looking out.

I guess another reason I wasn't really considering just getting KM84s is that while I do love the sound of samples I've heard, it's not really a priority of mine to get something as close as possible to it. The slight similarity between the mentioned other mics and the KM84 is what attracted me to them, but I really just want a pair of mics that will sound nice to my ears. But yeah, what the hell, if I can possibly get KM84s cheaper than the KM69s that try to imitate them, maybe that's the way to go.

{} · Post by {} » Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:25 am

Right on, man. Makes sense to me!

mrc · Post by **mrc** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:28 pm

They guy that did the sdc sampler cd IIRC claimed the AT 4021 was a real nice mic.

blungo2 · Post by **blungo2** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:00 pm

Sorry to resurrect an old thread ( i stumbled across it whilst looking for other stuff), but i don't think i espoused the virtues of the line audio cm3 mics enough. I recently used them in XY on a thin sounding 12 string and it sounded pretty good to me, not thin at all, but i prolly should have done ortf. I like them on piano too, i've even used them on vocals in a pinch and they sounded pretty good. Dirt cheap and great sounding, at least to my ears.
I'm going to try them on snare and tom soon.

jgimbel · Post by **jgimbel** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:42 pm

blungo2 wrote:Sorry to resurrect an old thread ( i stumbled across it whilst looking for other stuff), but i don't think i espoused the virtues of the line audio cm3 mics enough. I recently used them in XY on a thin sounding 12 string and it sounded pretty good to me, not thin at all, but i prolly should have done ortf. I like them on piano too, i've even used them on vocals in a pinch and they sounded pretty good. Dirt cheap and great sounding, at least to my ears.
I'm going to try them on snare and tom soon.

I've never heard of Line Audio before, but I just checked out their site (I'd love to know where to get some!) and some audio samples posted on another site, and they sound great! Amazing for how cheap they are.

Incidentally, I ended up with two KM84s, thanks to the pushing of {}, and a generous deal from another Tape Op member. The main issue was I wasn't necessarily looking for something to imitate the KM84 perfectly, just something in that direction meaning not absurdly bright, decent low end, etc. But my budget grew a little bit and I was looking at mics that are supposed to imitate the KM84s, and ended up just saving enough to get the real deal. So far I absolutely love them. I haven't gotten to use them on a ton of projects, but I've done some tests with them on overheads, and used them in stereo on acoustic in a session recently and they were just absolutely gorgeous. Like difficult not to just sit and smile gorgeous. I'd like to get a pair of something cheap (or cheaper, at least) that'll either contrast them or just be good to use in their place if I'm concerned about a clients' care of them, but these mics definitely allow me to get some incredible sounds I've never been able to get before. One of those "oh, so that's how they get things to sound incredible" moments.

PS - loving them into my custom-built API312 clones from Regular John Recording - KM84s + API =

blungo2 · Post by **blungo2** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:27 am

Very cool! That sounds like a great recording chain!

I recently bought an album that was recorded on just a pair of cm-3s.

http://owduo.com/

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Unusual gear advice: TLM 102 vs. MA KM-69 (maybe KM184?)

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