Album Release: Cd's or Online or...?

[jrdamien]

So in a couple weeks the record will be done and then...

Release is online or get cd's made? Are bands selling cd's successfully? Is it still considered cheap to sell cd'rs?

We're thinking of selling the album as a $10 download and offering a special, hand crafted cd for free for the 1st 100 people who buy it (friends and family). This to raise enough to print the cd's. The rest we'll probably give away and sell here and there at shows (since I've only ever been able to sell a couple at a time at shows).

Thoughts? Ideas?

[kslight]

I'd avoid printing CDs unless you are being distributed in stores or playing to enough people to where it makes economic sense. $10 for an album download also seems like a lot for what I'm assuming is a small band, I'd reconsider this business model. I'd put money into having shirts made before CDs, and do album downloads through Bandcamp or similar for $5 max.

Maybe try the "handmade CD R" thing in small batches for shows at $10 if you can make it not look cheesy (inkjet the CDR, Eco packaging, good print design...).
In my opinion the ROI is quite difficult to achieve through printing CDs by the thousands unless you are selling out of them.

[chris harris]

In my opinion the ROI is quite difficult to achieve through printing CDs by the thousands unless you are selling out of them.

I guess I don't understand this. ROI isn't really subject to opinion. If you manufacture 1000 CDs, you pay somewhere around $1100, depending on packaging. At $10 a piece, the break even point is 110 CDs sold. Everything above that is profit. Pretty decent ROI, even without selling out of them.

BTW, I'm not suggesting that selling even 100 CDs is easy. I'm just saying that the above opinion about ROI, as written, is inaccurate.

[jnorman34]

you need to print about 10-25 CDs in jewell case with barcode, then send them off to CD Baby - that will get you on iTunes and several other online distributors. unless you are touring, trying to sell hard copy CDs is futile these days.

[kslight]

In my opinion the ROI is quite difficult to achieve through printing CDs by the thousands unless you are selling out of them.

I guess I don't understand this. ROI isn't really subject to opinion. If you manufacture 1000 CDs, you pay somewhere around $1100, depending on packaging. At $10 a piece, the break even point is 110 CDs sold. Everything above that is profit. Pretty decent ROI, even without selling out of them.

BTW, I'm not suggesting that selling even 100 CDs is easy. I'm just saying that the above opinion about ROI, as written, is inaccurate.

Of course, if this was a free job with no studio time, mixing and mastering costs, graphic design, management, and legalities to eat up costs, then I guess it's conceivable to see a little money at the end of the tunnel.

If you're talking ROI on a piece of plastic, yeah. I'm talking about sacking another $1100 onto the steaming debt pile created to make the album. Sorry I thought the topic starter was talking about the viability of selling a collection of music, not a piece of plastic. My bad.

[Gregg Juke]

>>>>Of course, if this was a free job with no studio time, mixing and mastering costs, graphic design, management, and legalities to eat up costs, then I guess it's conceivable to see a little money at the end of the tunnel.

If you're talking ROI on a piece of plastic, yeah. I'm talking about sacking another $1100 onto the steaming debt pile created to make the album. Sorry I thought the topic starter was talking about the viability of selling a collection of music, not a piece of plastic. My bad.<<<<

Woh, there, KS... Anybody who has tried to move 1,000 (or 100!) CD's knows it's a pretty dicey proposition, but so is moving any amount of digital-only music. And, as the OP stated, the album is done. Whether costs were incurred or not, he would have had to record it and mix it anyway (kind of by definition). And I guess you could skip mastering if you thought that wasn't important for the sound of digital files; I'd be incllined to do _some kind_ of mastering regardless of release format, so the cost is there regardless.

So Chris' assessment, while not taking into account all of the possible costs involved, is pretty straight-up accurate.

The cost in time devoted to the project and its promotion and sale will be a big factor in success, but is not something easily quantifiable in financial terms. The BIG issue that really needs to be addressed, whether the record is released as an actual "record," or as a download-only digital file, is how it will be promoted. This is a cost that anybody serious about moving plastic/music/etc. will have to accept as a given.

But again, it may be _easier_ to skip the step of CD production, it may be in certain circumstances much more cost-effective in terms of initial cash-outlay, but the actual ROI on 1,000 CD's is the ROI on 1,000 CD's. Chris' numbers and (admittedly basic) formula are accurate.

GJ

[jrdamien]

Thanks for SOME of the replies. Seems to have gotten off the rails a bit with...hard feelings?

It's not going to cost $1000 to get the cd's. As I said, we'll be buying bulk, and likely 500, not 1000. The packaging will be diy. This will likely cost as much as having digipacks made by the printing company, but we can do it on demand so the upfront costs are less.

And the download itself isn't $10. It's $10 for the download and for a special edition of the CD. We'd only sell 100 of the download initially to fund said cd (and again, this to close friends and family).

But my main concern is, are CD's good for anything but giveaway promotions? For anyone but a popular band, are people buying cd's?

[MoreSpaceEcho]

i still buy cds. i even LIKE them. i suspect i'm a minority though.

[fossiltooth]

CD's are handy for importing into my computer.

A lot of bands these days are doing vinyl and download only. You can sell 45s or LPs at shows along with a unique code for a full download. A lot of fans seem to like that at shows these days. If I was in an unsigned band today, that's probably what I'd do.

Alternately, I might do with downloads and home-burned CDs to sell at shows. I'd probably create an interesting/unusual handmade sleeve to go along with it.

[joelpatterson]

Here's the issue as it bubbles up to me:

You've got to fight the conditioning that concert-goers have been subjected to: the band is great, the night was special, they picked up the CD (which $5 seems like a premium price for pseudo-unknowns) and when they pop it in the player-- generally-- they are treated to a half-assed, dismal, not-really-produced effort that fails to excite or inspire and quickly fades from memory.

IF this consumer knew that the CD they are eyeing on the merch table was spectacularly fantastic, sonically, emotionally, soothing and invigorating and just about at the cusp of the state-of-the-art of what is possible today... they'd snap it up and treasure it and it would become a part of their life and its songs would form the soundtrack to their current era.

So the issue isn't CD/digital/some combo, the issue is "that elusive quality that makes a recording stand out from the pack and gives it longevity," and then conveying that information to the potential customer. And if I knew the proper nutcracker to apply to that nut... I would definitely tell you.

[chris harris]

Sorry I thought the topic starter was talking about the viability of selling a collection of music, not a piece of plastic. My bad.

Yep. Your bad. The topic starter was very specifically asking about the viability of selling music on that little piece of plastic versus selling that same music as digital download only. The ROI on that little piece of plastic IS the discussion.

Sorry to have offended you, though. But, I don't think it helps any to let inaccurate facts be presented as some kind of informed "opinion". When you use a term like "ROI" in a discussion of the economic viability of ANYTHING, you're implying a certain understanding of economics.

I'm not even arguing whether or not CDs are worth fucking with. It's up to each band to take a look at the demand for their music, and which formats are in highest demand, and go from there.

I'm just making the point that ROI on ordering the plastic discs versus not ordering them is EASY to achieve, long before selling out of them. Even at quantities as low as 50 discs (full color, jewel cases, polywrap, etc.) the per unit cost is less than $4. In fact, Discmakers does 50 for $184. That means you can "achieve ROI" by selling only 20 units. That's less than half of the discs that you order.

The real question here shouldn't be whether or not it's worth it to manufacture discs. Compact Discs are dirt fucking cheap to manufacture, in any quantity over 50 discs. It should be about whether or not enough people who will buy your music give a shit about having a CD.

[vvv]

i still buy cds. i even LIKE them. i suspect i'm a minority though.

I still buy a couple a week ...

[jrdamien]

Having been in many bands before who'e been left with boxes of cd's in closets and never selling more than 5 or so at a show, I think the strategy will be to

a: give away most of 1000 after the 1st 100 are sold to finance that 1000 and

b: sell them at shows as we intend to online - pay what you think it's worth, from $1 to whatever.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

and when they pop it in the player-- generally-- they are treated to a half-assed, dismal, not-really-produced effort that fails to excite or inspire and quickly fades from memory.

yeah i dunno about that. presumably the same sort of bands you are talking about are the ones sending me stuff for mastering, and i gotta say...i hear lots of good records.

[roscoenyc]

I think you still need cd's for gigs. Lots of good short run specialists out there like Sirepress where you can get a hundred for a reasonable price.