Computer Upgrade - where oh where have my PCI slots gone?

T-rex · Post by **T-rex** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:09 pm

So I am getting ready to pretty much close to the public and work on, among other things, a second child and some composing. Both of which are going to take up a huge amount of time - I'll let you guess which one will get the lions share.

Anywhoo, I want to upgrade computers to be able to fully utilize the latest cubase, problem is I use two RME Multifaces (and a PS Digimax) to get my 24 channels in and out. The RME multifaces both have PCI cards. I got them used both the interface AND the PCI card for about $300. Unfortunately, all the new computers I have looked at don't have any PCI slots at all, and I need two. A new PCIe RME card costs $500, almost twice what I paid for the whole set and I can't seem to find anyone selling these things used. The only computer I have found with a plethora of PCI slots still are the creation stations from Sweetwater. Which have nice specs and I like the fact they are rack mounted, but they are overpriced for the performance.

So my options are:
Creation station - $1700 - use my current set up (which is rock solid and sounds great)
Any normal computer - $1000 and buy two PCIe RME cards. - $1000
Any normal computer - $1000 and new AD/DA convertors - $?
Magically find a new computer that has two PCI slots that doesn't suck.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

chris harris · Post by **chris harris** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:16 pm

I wish I had suggestions... but, all I can offer is sympathy. When I upgraded computers, I had 4 UAD-1 cards, and a MOTU pci424 that were useless to me in the new machine.

Maybe you can unload your RME PCI card to offset the cost of the PCIe card a little?

BTW, I've got an Avid 7 slot PCI chassis that I'd be willing to sell for $200. If you could find a PCIe host card for it, you could add 7 PCI slot to your new computer. I've never really looked around for a PCIe host card, though. So, I don't know what they would cost or how difficult they would be to find.

roygbiv · Post by **roygbiv** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:06 pm

Here's an option that has worked for me over the years - find a local "mom-and-pop" computer shop and have them build you a computer to order.

I've done this for years here in Portland with a great place called Pacific Solutions:

http://www.pacificsolutions.com/

They've built me probably 6-8 computers over the last ten years for my lab, to run old scientific instruments that needed ISA slots, or other strange configurations.

Thus, I'm pretty sure they could build you one with as many PCI slots as they can find available from motherboard manufacturers.

Note - they may not have the lowest prices you can find anywhere, but they TOTALLY know their stuff (I think the lady who owns it even does a public radio hour on computers).

On top of that, they usually only charge $50-100 more on top of component prices to build the computer and install the OS.

Since they build a lot of computers, and are very honest, they will give you suggestions based on their experience and tell you when a certain mother board isn't as good as a different make, or doesn't go well with a certain power supply, etc.

Since they build it and offer the warranty, they don't want to have to fix it later, so they really try to make sure it works the first time.

(insert rant here about the way things used to be in this country before outsourcing and mega-corporations took over and changed this concept...)

Bro Shark · Post by **Bro Shark** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:27 pm

First of all, those RME boxes are good. You got them for a song (congrats), so even thinking a few years ahead, investing in PCIe cards for them makes a lot of sense. PCIe is the present and foreseeable future, and PCI is unfortunately the past.

T-rex · Post by **T-rex** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:47 pm

Thanks for the suggestions so far.

Roygbiv, I will check into them! I talked to a friend who builds computers and he was saying the motherboards with PCI at all were getting pretty rare and usually didn't support the faster processors, which wouldn't be much of an upgrade. But the creation thingambobs seem to have them so I will definitely check into that.

Yeah Chris, I wanted to upgrade a year ago and resigned myself to buying some used RME cards in the meantime for a little less than new, but I never found any used PCIe so here I am looking around. I am lucky, I have used this computer for about 5 or 6 years and since most everything I do is out of the box for mixing, I really haven't needed one. But now I plan on using a lot of virtual instruments and in box craziness so even though I will still mix OTB I need more power. Plus the new Cubase rocks but it was built for windows 7 and is too buggy on XP. I don't know anything about the Avid expansions but I will totally check into it. I would rather go direct though, since currently I do that and my RME's have been totally rock solid in that configuration even though they are PCI but if it works it works.

chris harris · Post by **chris harris** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:18 pm

Yeah, I thought I'd use the expansion chassis with my new computer. But, between the speed upgrade, and the power of the new UAD-2 cards, I just didn't have any use for the UAD-1 cards anymore. I still have an open PCIe slot. But, the PCI chassis and 2 of the UAD-1 cards are just sitting in a storage room.

I was in a very similar situation. My old computer had been bulletproof and stable for about 5 years. I also mix OTB. But, instead of closing to the public, I was just getting ready to open in a commercial space for the first time. I could have probably squeezed a couple more years out of my computer. But, I needed to get into the new Pro Tools and I really wanted the new plugs that are only available for UAD-2. So, I kinda had to just grit my teeth and go for it.

I probably wouldn't want to pump multi channel audio through a PCI expansion chassis. It's crazy that those PCIe interface cards are so expensive. But, the RME stuff is out of this world good. I used RME stuff when I was on Windows and it was amazing.

kslight · Post by **kslight** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:03 pm

I would suggest unloading the cards and moving on, PCI hasn't been easily available on computers for at least a few years now, so it's time to let it go, as many owners of UAD 1 and older Pro Tools HD systems can tell you.

T-rex · Post by **T-rex** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:44 pm

The UAD-2 is amazing, I really loved that card. I contemplated making the move back but I just can't see going back in the box. Its funny, I never really intended on recording other people but they just kept coming and as much as I love it, I have got to get back to working on some stuff for me. Not to mention I need some room for the second kiddo.

If it matters, I still have my word processor from 1991. I WILL NEVER LET GO!!!!!

roygbiv · Post by **roygbiv** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:52 pm

Word Perfect 5.1, eh? I loved that program.

Reveal Codes rocked.

apropos of nothing · Post by **apropos of nothing** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:39 am

I saw this coming a few years ago and offloaded my PCI soundcard, and switched to a (MOTU) firewire interface. USB 3 looks like it will be a good option going forward.

Maybe you'd consider continuing to use your current computer as a recording rig and have a separate box for plugs and stuff?

trevord · Post by **trevord** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:04 am

Not sure if this helps you..
I had the same issue years ago - but I went with keeping my old system and upgrading everything to firewire and usb (firewire for audio and usb for midi).

I got multi io firewire and usb cards.
Audio is RME fireface and midi is Motu MIDI Timepiece

Old system works fine and the whole thing can be replaced by a big laptop at a moments notice.

But the old girl (still running XP on an aging AMD sempron with 2 gig) is still going strong.

You have to be careful tho...
Not every firewire is a "proper" 800 firewire no matter what the box says. Check with your favorite HW review forum for true 800.

Make sure the multi IO cards have a true hub can handle (and separate) the bandwidth required.

As far as performance goes - my original system was more external device based than VST, but I have done projects recording a couple of external audio recording channels synced to Cubase builtin VSTIs with no problems. And I have mixed down 24 audio channels with "lots" of eq and dynamics with no problem.

The one place I think it would break down is if I used external disks connected by firewire or USB. I use internal SATA for audio and IDE for SYSTEM - this just spreads the bandwidth out a little better.

I think the system will die one day - but it is so rock solid I find it hard to change anything if its not broken

RodC · Post by **RodC** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:10 am

Build your own, you usually get more bang for your buck. We just did one using an Asus MB that had 3 PCI slots. They still have several AMD boards that support the latest processers with 2 or 3 PCI slots.

EDIT
The MB we used:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813131646

We also went for a AMD Phenom II X6, 8G ram, and a SSD.

Snarl 12/8 · Post by **Snarl 12/8** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:51 am

Are you really going to need 24 channels of I/O going forward? I'd think composing would be mostly 2 channels at a time. You could sell your current rig and get one modern [PCIe] interface that had the option of adding more later if you really need the I/O and want to invest more money.

T-rex · Post by **T-rex** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:55 am

RodC wrote:Build your own, you usually get more bang for your buck. We just did one using an Asus MB that had 3 PCI slots. They still have several AMD boards that support the latest processers with 2 or 3 PCI slots.

EDIT
The MB we used:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813131646

We also went for a AMD Phenom II X6, 8G ram, and a SSD.

That looks like a good solution, I have always wanted to build my own anyway cause I am a glutton for punishment.

If you don't mind, what did that run you? And what case did you use, normal or rack mount?

RodC · Post by **RodC** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:53 pm

T-rex wrote:
RodC wrote:Build your own, you usually get more bang for your buck. We just did one using an Asus MB that had 3 PCI slots. They still have several AMD boards that support the latest processers with 2 or 3 PCI slots.

EDIT
The MB we used:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813131646

We also went for a AMD Phenom II X6, 8G ram, and a SSD.
That looks like a good solution, I have always wanted to build my own anyway cause I am a glutton for punishment.

If you don't mind, what did that run you? And what case did you use, normal or rack mount?

I used a normal case, the one my old DAW was in. We used the larger quiet fans.

We have about $750 in it. The HDs came from our previous DAW and the Win 7 Lic.

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Computer Upgrade - where oh where have my PCI slots gone?

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