recording the vintage electric blues sound?

jgimbel · Post by **jgimbel** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:57 am

This isn't nearly as useful as any of the great comments here so far, but that guitar sound reminds me a lot of the Vox AC4 - the couple times I've played them I've been really turned off because they sound to me a lot like a cranked, maybe solid state amp, which really disappointed me. Though, I do absolutely love the sound in the link the OP posted, and for that kind of application the AC4 might be perfect. I didn't really click with the amp whatsoever, but I wasn't playing like this, haha!

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:16 am

It was likely a pro jr fender harp amp.

brinnbacka · Post by **brinnbacka** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:31 am

I think the most famous harp amp Little Walter used is a Masco.

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:37 pm

The amp the guy in the pic was sittin on was a fender.
Makes me think that's what they had around. Fender was a pretty promo friendly company back in the day.

Snarl 12/8 · Post by **Snarl 12/8** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:59 pm

Throw a towel over the drums. Don't be afraid to fuck up the instruments (hopefully not permanently). Take the bottom head off the tom, put some tape or felt or whatever over the bass strings. Use the kick like a floor tom, (across two chairs) or vice versa. Etc., etc. whatever it takes to put everything except the guitar and vox in the background. I think this goes along with the untune some shit advice.

I know you said not to say anything about the playing, but one thing I've noticed is that nowadays everyone is after virtuosity, all the time. Like it's not cool to have a part in a song that's not "clever" in some way, either tone, or playing or how it fits in the arrangement, or all of the above. Back then, it was cool to play a really, really simple part, on half a drum kit and never do a single fill. On recordings like that (maybe not that one in particular) I often think the "drum kit" is a floor tom tuned real low with a towel over it and a cymbal (with a handkerchief or a chain or something on it) or maybe just a shaker. And that's it. And the part being played is super simple. Just provide a pulse or rhythm (not a drum beat), really.

Am I wrong?

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:11 pm

I see what your saying, and it's true in most genre's, this genre being sort of lost in time, not so much, but, I'd say you were spot on in modern equivalents.

Gregg Juke · Post by **Gregg Juke** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:30 pm

Yeah Carl, I don't think so much in the Chicago type stuff, but for the Sun sound, sure, as well as any real early Country, Jazz, or Blues. The Grand Old Opry didn't allow drums for quite some time, right? And on early Blues and Dixieland Jazz recordings, a lot of the drummers played differently than they did live (like on rims or woodblocks) because hitting the snare would make the needle jump on direct-to-disc funnel recordings, if I'm not mistaken. And wasn't the early Elvis stuff done without drums, and later, with cardboard boxes or crates?

GJ

jimmyjack · Post by **jimmyjack** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:48 pm

This has been super educational and very helpful.

I've seen photos of Hare with a Danelectro, but that guitar doesn't sound like any Dan I've ever heard. Any ideas what it could be?

{} · Post by {} » Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:09 pm

One thing I'd like to add - if you're going for a real old-skool sound, the vocal mic IS the room mic. Do the vocals live with the band in the same room.

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:36 pm

{} wrote:One thing I'd like to add - if you're going for a real old-skool sound, the vocal mic IS the room mic. Do the vocals live with the band in the same room.

Not necessarily at Sun. Also, Sun's room is treated. You can play drums in it no problem.

ashcat_lt · Post by **ashcat_lt** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 6:50 am

jimmyjack wrote:Thanks dude! Interesting about the GB mics. Now that you mention it, I can't say my experience with 'em isn't consistent with what you say - that's some treble-y, mid-range-y shit.

But they're frickin' awesome snare mics!

Gregg Juke · Post by **Gregg Juke** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:54 am

>>>>But they're frickin' awesome snare mics!<<<<

Huh. I haven't gotten around to trying the "harp mike as floor/room mike for drums" trick yet, but I've wanted to try it. I can't imagine a Green Bullet as the only snare microphone, though (Is that what you meant, or as an adjunct?)...

GJ

tony_tomlinson · Post by **tony_tomlinson** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:51 am

Jimmy,

There have always been rumors that Pat Hare slit his speakers to achieve a more distorted sound. Remember, these guys were trying to emulate horns and were heavily influenced by jazz. Distortion was a means to an end.

I reject the notion that guitars should be out of tune or things intentionally made to sound messed up. That ideology diminishes what guys like Willie Johnson, Robert Jr. Lockwood, Hubert Sumlin, and Jimmie Rogers were about. These guys were tremendous musicians who could play multiple styles of music.

In terms of tone, history eliminates much of what has been discussed above (i.e. Green Bullets and Vox amps). The Fender tweed deluxe was probably standard fare in most American independent studios at the time. Later, Bassmans became popular because of the unique bass response they provided guitar players (think early Buddy Guy).

At Chess, Little Walter was rumored to have played through PA heads like Maasco. He owned the amplified sound so James Cotton took things in another direction when he joined Muddy Water's band. Check out George Smith for yet another take on amplified harmonica. His was a very compressed sound that was a product of how he cupped the harmonica.

The best bit of advice that one can offer is to study guys like Lockwood, the Myers Brothers, early BB, Muddy Waters and Howlin' Wolf's many guitarists. If you want to nail the tone it starts with speaking the style and not as a second language. Really study that stuff. Listen to the old Frank Frost records from Sun. It's brilliant stuff. There are no secrets man. Small tube amps of almost any make will accomplish the task. And, I have heard spot on stuff that was recorded digitally.

Check out footage on Youtube of Liam Watson in action at Toerag. That's pretty much how things have been recorded for the past 60 years. Very educational and Liam looks great in a lab coat.

Hopefully, I didn't come off as a lecturer. I am just very fond of blues. I think it's great that you even know who Pat Hare is and that we are having a conversation about him some 50 years after he made his last recording.

jimmyjack · Post by **jimmyjack** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:51 pm

Tony - no, on the contrary, your take is very informed and much appreciated! Interesting about the Bassman amps and the slits in the speakers. I agree it's just about studying those guys - I can recite every Hubert lick in my head at any given moment. Also a big Lockwood fan, especially when you can really hear him play rhythm, like on certain Otis Spann cuts. For a guitar player, I'm a pretty good songwriter (ha ha ha) but I'm working on trying to interpret (not emulate) what these guys were doing. The rawness of some of these recordings could put any metal band to shame.

Will check out that Toerag link - thanks!

tony_tomlinson · Post by **tony_tomlinson** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:43 pm

There are two records on the Candid label released as Otis Spann titles but it's really as much Lockwood as Otis Spann. If I recall, it's mostly just duo stuff. Lockwood's playing is perfect.

The names of the records are "Otis Spann is the Blues" and "Walkin' the Blues" respectively. One of my friends turned me on to those records. He said, "they'll change your life." I don't know if they changed my life but if any music could...

There are some young guys like Nick Curran who are making cool records right now. Nick works with the Horton Brothers at Fort Horton in Austin. They are all very talented and merciless students of American music. Good stuff.

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recording the vintage electric blues sound?

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