This news just in about Logic

[Winstontaneous]

Curious, what is Apple's response to the audio playback issues?

Also, does Logic draw and store the waveform profile (like I know Reaper, SoundForge, and Windows other apps I use do) or does it have to draw it fresh each time?

[Nick Sevilla]

Curious, what is Apple's response to the audio playback issues?

Also, does Logic draw and store the waveform profile (like I know Reaper, SoundForge, and Windows other apps I use do) or does it have to draw it fresh each time?

I sent a test through to an Apple employee who worked in Pro Audio division, about 5 years ago, when I first did it on version "whatever it was at the time".
I think it was version 7.

I am still waiting for a response.

I did the test on Logic 8 when it came out, hoping for a relief... no dice.

Then, I did the same test on 9, hoping again for relief. F*&k no. Still did not work.

In other words, they do not give a flying fried lard s%^t.

As to the waveforms, it creates a waveform file once, and then uses that. Just like many other DAWs. And THAT has also caused me no end of trouble sometimes. Like the rainbow wheel of "Creating Waveforms" as soon as you change ONE fade, and it just hangs there.

I still wonder why Apple calls it Logic "Pro". This, it is clearly not.
At least under eMagic'stutelage you could actually talk to the developers directly, and they would actually try to fix it. Under Logic 4.8.1, using Pro Tools HD hardware, IT F'ing WORKED!!! Of course, this is a feature THEY NO LONGER SUPPORT. Great.

So, it can be done, just not until it gets sold to someone else who cares about making sounds come out when intended.

Cheers

[Andy Peters]

Also, does Logic draw and store the waveform profile (like I know Reaper, SoundForge, and Windows other apps I use do) or does it have to draw it fresh each time?

Logic stores a waveform preview of some sort.

I would like to see a DAW, other than Cool Edit Pro, that actually applies a sinc filter to each sample, at least when zoomed in, so you don't see the ridiculously-wrong connect-the-dots display.

[Nick Sevilla]

Also, does Logic draw and store the waveform profile (like I know Reaper, SoundForge, and Windows other apps I use do) or does it have to draw it fresh each time?

Logic stores a waveform preview of some sort.

I would like to see a DAW, other than Cool Edit Pro, that actually applies a sinc filter to each sample, at least when zoomed in, so you don't see the ridiculously-wrong connect-the-dots display.

Pro Tools...7 through 10 does this ok.

Logic... nope...

[Sculli]

While I like all your examples on your site Nick I would like to understand your overall dislike of Logic. Is it an editing thing?. i'm old fashioned and do very little editing(play it till it sounds and feels right).I like the sound of Logic better in direct comparison with PT9.Might be the mix engine. Yes editing is much easier in PT. I don't do this for a living but I know what I like. Would like to use PT as it works great with my UAD plugs now that they're RTAS. Just something about the sound that bugs the crap out of me.
Peace,
Kevin

[Nick Sevilla]

While I like all your examples on your site Nick I would like to understand your overall dislike of Logic. Is it an editing thing?. i'm old fashioned and do very little editing(play it till it sounds and feels right).I like the sound of Logic better in direct comparison with PT9.Might be the mix engine. Yes editing is much easier in PT. I don't do this for a living but I know what I like. Would like to use PT as it works great with my UAD plugs now that they're RTAS. Just something about the sound that bugs the crap out of me.
Peace,
Kevin

My dislike for Logic, is only because it simply does not play back things in the same place each time you press play. I do like their synths, and some of their plug in effects are cool.

Usually if I choose to use Logic, it will be to create a specific sound or ambience, which I then import into PT for playback. Using their Delay designer or Space designer is great. Kind of a sandbox, where I import audio to mess with, then export it to PT for the final mixing.

Since I work professionally at this for a living, I cannot give the excuse that "My DAW does this sometimes."

This is not acceptable, in my book, and definitely in my client's book either. It either works, or does not. some clients I have worked with CAN tell if something is even a little off. So I have to work to that standard.

That is why Logic is not my main platform. And I've owned logic since 2001, version 4.7 after working on a project which was Logic only, I bought it and used it for a few years. Not just as a hobby...

The editing is good, the midi is good, it is just the playback engine which is not acceptable to me. And since we are dealing with audio, and audio engine that is not working correctly... well, that is the issue.

I did approach eMagic and then Apple about it, to absolutely no avail. The eMagic guys accepted that this was an issue way back in version 5.0, Apple simply never gave any answer, from version 7.0 and onwards.

If you live near the LA area, I'll be more than happy to show you how I make PT sound good. That is an art into itself. It is not easy... It has taken me about 5 years to get a mix I love in PT. Once you know how to work within the limitations, you can get really good mixes. Just like in the analog world, or on any other DAW.

Cheers

[Brian]

Not Bashing, Legit questions, I'm not a fanboy of either or any platform.

My dislike for Logic, is only because it simply does not play back things in the same place each time you press play.
Since I work professionally at this for a living, I cannot give the excuse that "My DAW does this sometimes."
This is not acceptable, in my book, and definitely in my client's book either. It either works, or does not. some clients I have worked with CAN tell if something is even a little off. So I have to work to that standard.
The editing is good, the midi is good, it is just the playback engine which is not acceptable to me. And since we are dealing with audio, and audio engine that is not working correctly... well, that is the issue.

I did approach eMagic and then Apple about it, to absolutely no avail. The eMagic guys accepted that this was an issue way back in version 5.0, Apple simply never gave any answer, from version 7.0 and onwards.

Well, I've never gotten a decent response from any company regarding hat or Bounce To Disk in PT and why it sometimes/often fails and can't operate in the background, and they both have a "firewall" to block all feedback from customers (I can't blame them for he most part, they'd probably be mainly in the biz of handling noob questions if they didn't have one up).

If you live near the LA area, I'll be more than happy to show you how I make PT sound good. That is an art into itself. It is not easy... It has taken me about 5 years to get a mix I love in PT. Once you know how to work within the limitations, you can get really good mixes. Just like in the analog world, or on any other DAW.

Cheers

Hey, I may be old and not in LA, but, I'm always up for something new, clue me in on this! I'm not dissatisfied with my mixes, but, I'm always up for learning new stuff and improving my service. It's been my FT self employment for 25 of the 30 years I've been doing it for $$.

[Brian]

Not Bashing, Legit questions, I'm not a fanboy of either or any platform.

My dislike for Logic, is only because it simply does not play back things in the same place each time you press play.
Since I work professionally at this for a living, I cannot give the excuse that "My DAW does this sometimes."
This is not acceptable, in my book, and definitely in my client's book either. It either works, or does not. some clients I have worked with CAN tell if something is even a little off. So I have to work to that standard.
The editing is good, the midi is good, it is just the playback engine which is not acceptable to me. And since we are dealing with audio, and audio engine that is not working correctly... well, that is the issue.

I did approach eMagic and then Apple about it, to absolutely no avail. The eMagic guys accepted that this was an issue way back in version 5.0, Apple simply never gave any answer, from version 7.0 and onwards.

Well, I've never gotten a decent response from any company regarding hat or Bounce To Disk in PT and why it sometimes/often fails and can't operate in the background, and they both have a "firewall" to block all feedback from customers (I can't blame them for he most part, they'd probably be mainly in the biz of handling noob questions if they didn't have one up).

If you live near the LA area, I'll be more than happy to show you how I make PT sound good. That is an art into itself. It is not easy... It has taken me about 5 years to get a mix I love in PT. Once you know how to work within the limitations, you can get really good mixes. Just like in the analog world, or on any other DAW.

Cheers

Hey, I may be old and not in LA, but, I'm always up for something new, clue me in on this! I'm not dissatisfied with my mixes, but, I'm always up for learning new stuff and improving my service. It's been my FT self employment for 25 of the 30 years I've been doing it for $$.

[Nick Sevilla]

Well, I've never gotten a decent response from any company regarding hat or Bounce To Disk in PT and why it sometimes/often fails and can't operate in the background, and they both have a "firewall" to block all feedback from customers (I can't blame them for he most part, they'd probably be mainly in the biz of handling noob questions if they didn't have one up).

Hey, I may be old and not in LA, but, I'm always up for something new, clue me in on this! I'm not dissatisfied with my mixes, but, I'm always up for learning new stuff and improving my service. It's been my FT self employment for 25 of the 30 years I've been doing it for $$.

Hi Brian,

I did get an official answer from Digidesign (now Avid) about the Bounce To Disk:

Their position is that it is better to record the mix into a new track, through an internal buss. I was told this first back in 2005. And the last time I spoke to a Digi guy, at AES in S.F. in November 2010, this position has not changed.

Here are some reasons for this:

1.- If you are utilizing ANY outboard hardware equipment, it may have issues with handling this IO flow, so best to avoid doing bounce to disk when using this scenario.

2.- Although mixes have been proved to be identical, there may be rare instances when they may not be. This can be caused by plug-ins not working properly during the Bounce to Disk, or sometimes the plug-in cache not working correclty may cause undesirable artifacts.

As to why it is desirable to record your mix onto an audio track, the benefits are:

1.- You can punch in when doing a fix, and save some time by only having to re-record a small section of a mix.

2.- It forces you to listen to the mix as it is going down. This to me is invaluable. And since you are able to follow the playhead, you can determine where there needs to be a change in the mix, if needed. With Bounce To Disk, you do not get to follow the playhead.

3.- Should there be any issue with a plug-in or other situation, you can immediately stop the print, and resolve the issue. With Bounce to Disk, this sometimes takes a lot longer for the computer to stop the bounce procedure. With the recording, it is an almost immediate stop.

So, there are the details on "Bounce To Disk" option in Pro Tools.

That option has supposedly gotten better with newer versions of PT, but me and most all other mix engineers I know all use the real time printing onto a track, when that is the final medium for the mixdown.

And, sure, I can give you some pointers as to how to get better mixes on PT.
Shoot me a PM with your email, and I'll send you my contact details.

Cheers

[Brian]

That's the solution I used with PT too.
With Logic, I can make a mix with so much stuff in it it would lock up the computer and it still prints, which is why I went with it. I got tired of having to make a bunch of stems and then mix them only.
I haven't had the problems with it not playing back he same way every time. What is the instance where this happens in a real world situation that makes it grate on you?

PS. My email is on the page below the tiny quote thing.

[norton]

I bought logic 8 and have had nothing but trouble with it. Pro kit updates, clean installs etc...

First troubles were disappearing meters in the mixer, then odd region overlaps with audio edits....now it wont even load up... Crash crash crash.

My computer is setup nicely and fully compliant os etc. I have had the smallest handful of Pt crashes, while logic has only given me a small handful of useful time.

This bums me out because I think logic is great in theory...but for me has been very frustrating in practice.

[Nick Sevilla]

@ Brian: sent you an email...

Cheers

[Brian]

I bought logic 8 and have had nothing but trouble with it. Pro kit updates, clean installs etc...

First troubles were disappearing meters in the mixer, then odd region overlaps with audio edits....now it wont even load up... Crash crash crash.

My computer is setup nicely and fully compliant os etc. I have had the smallest handful of Pt crashes, while logic has only given me a small handful of useful time.

This bums me out because I think logic is great in theory...but for me has been very frustrating in practice.

You doin the preference repair thing in disk utility?
Also, I hope you're running Logic and PT on different accounts, too, no way they work together, and in that vein, when you go to logic, yo do make sure to select the apple driver instead of the PT audio engine, right?

[norton]

I don't have logic on it's own partition, and I've never tried to get logic and Pt to work together...

In fact for quite a while logic was the only daw on the computer and it still behaved poorly. I think it's personal....logic can be spiteful, you know.

[Brian]

First question still stands, have you done repair preferences in disk utility for the account you use logic on?

I have an admin account on which I do all installs, it is the master account on the computer.
? I don't do anything but installs and NEVER open the programs in that account, especially not Protools or Logic. ?
You should do the same.

Create and use another account for doing work in, but, don't do your installs on that account, it's just for using the programs.

I haven't had a hiccup in logic yet, probably because I knew to do this from the start.
Give it a shot if you haven't tried it already.

When you do installs or updates to ANY programs, also, restart, then run repair preferences in disk utility, then restart again, then open up your program.
Save yourself some headaches.
You should be running this every week at least, if you do a ton of work you may run it once a day at the beginning or end of the day too.