Hello.
I would like to thank everyone in advance for checking this out. I know relatively little about studio design and need some quick general advice on a space I am about to rent; even if that advice is "don't rent this space! it's an acoustical nightmare ; )"
The space is a 1,200 square foot concrete room (10 ft ceilings, with piping/beams hanging down), that we plan on using for rehearsal and live band recording. I do 8 track live all-analog recordings with some really top notch recording gear, and have been looking for a space as a semi-permanent home. I am not ready to build out a "professional" studio; it's going to be a very DIY project. I need some basic advice on what I can do to this room to get it suitable for rehearsal and live recording.
Currently, the room reverberates tremendously when we are just speaking inside the room. I guess the main goal is to get this reverb tamed so a loud rock band can play in there, and we can track it live to tape (overdub vocals). The reverb already sounds phenomenal, but it's out of control. Would like to be able to mix in there as well. I am not expecting a perfect mix environment, just something that works and that I can get used to.
I am just looking for some basic advice right now, i.e. what's the best way to spend a very small budget at this stage. We would like to spend $5,000 on materials over the next 6 months; we will do all construction ourselves; possibly a one room studio, possibly with a control room+ one iso room. However, for the immediate future (next 2 weeks), we would like to just to get the space up and running for rehearsals and recording, we are thinking of getting as many cheap rugs/carpets as possible for the floors to start. Not sure what else to do at first, so any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Here are some pictures of the space: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Fallout-S ... 8777075276
Thanks
Mike
General advice on a space I am about to rent
I wouldn't spend any money without doing some serious research, particularly with that Rod Gervais Home Studio Building book...
One comment and it may be the pictures but the place looks kind of....dank. Make sure it doesn't leak...
That said I personally would approach it as a one room studio...no control room...and I would build gobos for some degree of separation, as well as bass traps and diffusers and such... I probably wouldn't carpet the room, maybe a couple rugs at the most but generally acoustically you want a hard floor and a soft ceiling, if that makes sense.
One comment and it may be the pictures but the place looks kind of....dank. Make sure it doesn't leak...
That said I personally would approach it as a one room studio...no control room...and I would build gobos for some degree of separation, as well as bass traps and diffusers and such... I probably wouldn't carpet the room, maybe a couple rugs at the most but generally acoustically you want a hard floor and a soft ceiling, if that makes sense.
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Gregg Juke
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It sounds like a cool space.
* See if anyone can donate carpet. As much as you can get.
* Studio foam (like Auralex) can be used, but also less expensive alternatives (hospital foam, egg-crate and pattern foam from Walmart, etc.). In this case, the foam is a good idea because your current main concern is taming highs and reverb. Eventually, you'll want Rockwool/704 for more bass absorption, bass traps, and maybe some diffusers...
* See what kind of free or inexpensive office furniture you can snag at garage sales or whatever. You'll need chairs, maybe a couch, and a work table and/or an actual office desk in-lieu of a mixing desk. You may want to see if you can find some office dividers as well, to block out areas like a control room, or to use as baffles/gobos for dealing with leakage.
* There are some fairly inexpensive racks out there for outboard gear, if you need. Another very inexpensive alternative-- mobile microwave oven stand at Target (two level rack space plus small tabletop on wheels; something like $50 or less?)...
* If you get the office dividers and/or Auralex/cheap foam, you can make a "vocal booth" in a corner or on a section of wall. You can use this area to track vox away from noise or more reflective space in the studio.
* I'd leave an area somewhere where you haven't over-treated for reflection/reverb. You can move amps or percussion into this space if you want a more live sound, or you can set-up a speaker and mike and have your own "echo chamber."
* Regarding possible water/leakage-- make sure there are no problems, and if there is any worry about even a bit of water coming-up from underneath, you can put drums on a riser and amps on stands or milk crates (if there's a leaky roof, don't rent it). Make sure there are no serious mold issues.
* Make sure your electrical is solid. Run crtitcal equipment on filtered power; a regulator would be even better. Get a UPS for any digital or critical electronic gear.
* Look-up posts here and at other sites, and the standard book and mag guides to setting-up a control room, and match as much as possible with what is acoustically sound vs. what your needs and the realities of the space are.
* Don't forget about security!!!! Have really good locks. Have LARGE (farm/barn door) bolts on the inside of any doors that are not main entrances that have the hinges on the outside. Buy inexpensive Home Depot window alarms to make noise and supplement security; but look into spending the money to get a real, serious, monitored alarm system. Also, check into insurance, and make sure it covers what you need it to at an amount that will provide for you to pick up the pieces if anything ever goes south.
* Just looked at the pictures. Hard to tell. It looks a little scary/"dank" as kslight mentioned, but you should have seen our studio before we moved in and cleaned it up. You can do a lot with paint and elbow grease.
* You didn't mention where you are. Check the local noise ordinances. Also, what about environmental control factors (heat, air-conditioning, etc.)?
* Is there a bathroom with running water nearby? (critical)
* Make sure your business is in order, whatever that may be. Who owns the gear? Who signs the lease, and is responsible for rent payment? Are any utilities (lights, heat) included, or will that be a separate bill? And if so, who pays? Who has the final say? If this is your space, cool. If it's a band thing, make sure everything is S-P-E-L-L-E-D out and _on paper_. You'll be really glad for having worked-out details later.
GJ
* See if anyone can donate carpet. As much as you can get.
* Studio foam (like Auralex) can be used, but also less expensive alternatives (hospital foam, egg-crate and pattern foam from Walmart, etc.). In this case, the foam is a good idea because your current main concern is taming highs and reverb. Eventually, you'll want Rockwool/704 for more bass absorption, bass traps, and maybe some diffusers...
* See what kind of free or inexpensive office furniture you can snag at garage sales or whatever. You'll need chairs, maybe a couch, and a work table and/or an actual office desk in-lieu of a mixing desk. You may want to see if you can find some office dividers as well, to block out areas like a control room, or to use as baffles/gobos for dealing with leakage.
* There are some fairly inexpensive racks out there for outboard gear, if you need. Another very inexpensive alternative-- mobile microwave oven stand at Target (two level rack space plus small tabletop on wheels; something like $50 or less?)...
* If you get the office dividers and/or Auralex/cheap foam, you can make a "vocal booth" in a corner or on a section of wall. You can use this area to track vox away from noise or more reflective space in the studio.
* I'd leave an area somewhere where you haven't over-treated for reflection/reverb. You can move amps or percussion into this space if you want a more live sound, or you can set-up a speaker and mike and have your own "echo chamber."
* Regarding possible water/leakage-- make sure there are no problems, and if there is any worry about even a bit of water coming-up from underneath, you can put drums on a riser and amps on stands or milk crates (if there's a leaky roof, don't rent it). Make sure there are no serious mold issues.
* Make sure your electrical is solid. Run crtitcal equipment on filtered power; a regulator would be even better. Get a UPS for any digital or critical electronic gear.
* Look-up posts here and at other sites, and the standard book and mag guides to setting-up a control room, and match as much as possible with what is acoustically sound vs. what your needs and the realities of the space are.
* Don't forget about security!!!! Have really good locks. Have LARGE (farm/barn door) bolts on the inside of any doors that are not main entrances that have the hinges on the outside. Buy inexpensive Home Depot window alarms to make noise and supplement security; but look into spending the money to get a real, serious, monitored alarm system. Also, check into insurance, and make sure it covers what you need it to at an amount that will provide for you to pick up the pieces if anything ever goes south.
* Just looked at the pictures. Hard to tell. It looks a little scary/"dank" as kslight mentioned, but you should have seen our studio before we moved in and cleaned it up. You can do a lot with paint and elbow grease.
* You didn't mention where you are. Check the local noise ordinances. Also, what about environmental control factors (heat, air-conditioning, etc.)?
* Is there a bathroom with running water nearby? (critical)
* Make sure your business is in order, whatever that may be. Who owns the gear? Who signs the lease, and is responsible for rent payment? Are any utilities (lights, heat) included, or will that be a separate bill? And if so, who pays? Who has the final say? If this is your space, cool. If it's a band thing, make sure everything is S-P-E-L-L-E-D out and _on paper_. You'll be really glad for having worked-out details later.
GJ
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Gregg Juke
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kickoldman
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There are some acoustic whizzes that post here and on gearslutz that are very generous with their know-how, you can find a ton of practical advice and DIY designs. I'll second kslight's advice to do some heavy research now.
Now for this hack's two cents: The biggest problems I see are the low ceilings and all the parallel walls. You can get a bunch of broadband absorption on the ceiling to make it feel like a bigger space. To tame the reverb you will want some broadband absorption on the walls/corners. OC703 and OC706 are two popular materials for this. To tame the flutter echo you need to break up the parallel walls, and I'd be looking at poly-cylindrical diffusers. They are fast, easy, and cheap to build yourself, and I've had good results with them in open floor plans such as your space. Here's a thread on gearslutz with some DIY plans: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/bass-tra ... users.html
Now for this hack's two cents: The biggest problems I see are the low ceilings and all the parallel walls. You can get a bunch of broadband absorption on the ceiling to make it feel like a bigger space. To tame the reverb you will want some broadband absorption on the walls/corners. OC703 and OC706 are two popular materials for this. To tame the flutter echo you need to break up the parallel walls, and I'd be looking at poly-cylindrical diffusers. They are fast, easy, and cheap to build yourself, and I've had good results with them in open floor plans such as your space. Here's a thread on gearslutz with some DIY plans: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/bass-tra ... users.html
some great advice so far, thank you. i've been going to barnes and nobles the past 2 days reading the Gervais book and getting a much better foundation to think about this stuff. i'll probably buy it as soon as i can afford to.
in terms of the drop ceiling instead of carpeting the floor, does anyone have any pictures or plans for ceiling work? i'd like to visualize this better.
going to read all day about poly-cylindrical diffusers and look into 703 and 706.
where would we need bass trapping?
i would like to have a moveable vocal booth for when we need a really dead environment as well. will probably keep this a one-room studio.
in terms of the drop ceiling instead of carpeting the floor, does anyone have any pictures or plans for ceiling work? i'd like to visualize this better.
going to read all day about poly-cylindrical diffusers and look into 703 and 706.
where would we need bass trapping?
i would like to have a moveable vocal booth for when we need a really dead environment as well. will probably keep this a one-room studio.
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Gregg Juke
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MoreSpaceEcho
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1200 sq ft is enough for good sized control and live rooms.
how much noise can you make? do you have neighbors?
ideally you would frame out rooms within rooms for both the control/live rooms, but i don't think you're gonna be able to do that for $5000.
if you don't have neighbors, you could just frame out a control room, and have the rest of the space as your live room.
i would not mess with any sort of drop ceiling business. i'd cram as much 703 as possible into the ceiling, in the space between the joists. put some more panels on the walls, and perhaps a few area rugs on the floor, and that should tame down the reverb considerably.
read this about 100 times:
http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html
do the same with the gervais book.
do the same with the studio forum at gearslutz and the john sayers forum.
DO NOT, I REPEAT DO NOT SPEND ANY MONEY UNTIL AFTER YOU'VE SPENT HOURS AND HOURS READING.
i know, you're dying to get in there and start making a racket. believe me, i know. restrain yourself. switch to decaf. whatever it takes. all this acoustics/studio building stuff takes a while to sink in...a lot of it is kind of counter-intuitive....go slow, study, and learn. THEN start thinking about spending money. if you don't have a lot of money to spend (and who does?), you gotta spend it wisely.
how much noise can you make? do you have neighbors?
ideally you would frame out rooms within rooms for both the control/live rooms, but i don't think you're gonna be able to do that for $5000.
if you don't have neighbors, you could just frame out a control room, and have the rest of the space as your live room.
i would not mess with any sort of drop ceiling business. i'd cram as much 703 as possible into the ceiling, in the space between the joists. put some more panels on the walls, and perhaps a few area rugs on the floor, and that should tame down the reverb considerably.
read this about 100 times:
http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html
do the same with the gervais book.
do the same with the studio forum at gearslutz and the john sayers forum.
DO NOT, I REPEAT DO NOT SPEND ANY MONEY UNTIL AFTER YOU'VE SPENT HOURS AND HOURS READING.
i know, you're dying to get in there and start making a racket. believe me, i know. restrain yourself. switch to decaf. whatever it takes. all this acoustics/studio building stuff takes a while to sink in...a lot of it is kind of counter-intuitive....go slow, study, and learn. THEN start thinking about spending money. if you don't have a lot of money to spend (and who does?), you gotta spend it wisely.
noise is not an issue, which is why we love this space. no residential neighbors to bother + all the concrete seems to keep the room heavily isolated from the outside of the building.
we've decided for now to keep it as a one room studio, rather than build out a separate control room, to save costs. i have been doing the one room studio thing for a while, and have gotten used to using isolating headphones to place microphones, and just spending a lot of time listening back off the tape until we are happy with the sound. as per mixing, we figured we can create some moveable walls to put behind the speakers, or create a better mix environment when it comes time to mix, rather than build out an isolated control room.
i'm going to read like a maniac over the next week. come february 1st, we have to get it suited for rehearsals so we will have to spend some money, however we can take our sweet time really focusing on "tuning" the room.
we've decided for now to keep it as a one room studio, rather than build out a separate control room, to save costs. i have been doing the one room studio thing for a while, and have gotten used to using isolating headphones to place microphones, and just spending a lot of time listening back off the tape until we are happy with the sound. as per mixing, we figured we can create some moveable walls to put behind the speakers, or create a better mix environment when it comes time to mix, rather than build out an isolated control room.
i'm going to read like a maniac over the next week. come february 1st, we have to get it suited for rehearsals so we will have to spend some money, however we can take our sweet time really focusing on "tuning" the room.
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kayagum
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Read this article from TapeOp Equipment Geek Andy Hong:
http://www.kimcheerecords.com/articles/studioacoustics/
Lots of great ideas and products used.
Enjoy!
http://www.kimcheerecords.com/articles/studioacoustics/
Lots of great ideas and products used.
Enjoy!
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set= ... 276&type=3
here are some measurements/more detailed images that show the space. would really appreciate any specific recommendations to get this space ready, at least to have bands rehearse there for the time being (reducing the reverb). Over the next month we'll focus on building more treatment so it's a better room for recording/mixing.
Thanks!
here are some measurements/more detailed images that show the space. would really appreciate any specific recommendations to get this space ready, at least to have bands rehearse there for the time being (reducing the reverb). Over the next month we'll focus on building more treatment so it's a better room for recording/mixing.
Thanks!
Hi Mikoo69,
That's a nice big room. You have lots of potential there.
On a low budget, one thing I'd consider is to buy/build lots of movable traps. This way you can adapt to whatever you are doing. For instance, when mixing you can arrange them all in a circle or half-circle around your console/speakers/workstation etc, to get a nice focused sound in that space. Then, when tracking you can arrange the panels around the instruments, or between the performers for full band tracking to tighten up the sounds and improve isolation between instrument mics.
To give you some ideas of what I mean:
For the ceiling, if you have exposed ceiling joists you can simply stuff the joists with insulation (thick fluffy fiberglass works OK and is cost-effective), and then cover the bottom of the joists iwth fabric. This can be done quickly and cheaply (ie, with a staplegun to hold the fabric up) or you can spend more time on the finish work to get it to look purtier.
Definitely good potential with this space!
That's a nice big room. You have lots of potential there.
On a low budget, one thing I'd consider is to buy/build lots of movable traps. This way you can adapt to whatever you are doing. For instance, when mixing you can arrange them all in a circle or half-circle around your console/speakers/workstation etc, to get a nice focused sound in that space. Then, when tracking you can arrange the panels around the instruments, or between the performers for full band tracking to tighten up the sounds and improve isolation between instrument mics.
To give you some ideas of what I mean:
For the ceiling, if you have exposed ceiling joists you can simply stuff the joists with insulation (thick fluffy fiberglass works OK and is cost-effective), and then cover the bottom of the joists iwth fabric. This can be done quickly and cheaply (ie, with a staplegun to hold the fabric up) or you can spend more time on the finish work to get it to look purtier.
Definitely good potential with this space!
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