Neil Young sez: "Piracy is the new radio."

[Jeff White]

I don't know what they have in their library, but I've got tons and tons of stuff to listen to already-- I don't see what I'd need that for. Again, just speaking for myself.

That's totally cool. I just like checking out new records a few times each week because I really love discovering new things. I'm a rabid fan of music even at the ripe old age of 39. From friends' bands, to local heroes, to national and international acts. Past, present, future.

I also rarely listen with headphones.

Jeff

[Jeff White]

Spotify wouldn't exist, and couldn't be cost effective for consumers if they had to have enough administrative staff to manage relationships with each of the MILLIONS of artists who choose to distribute their music that way. It's called "distribution" and it's not new to digital music. They manage your access to the DOZENS of digital retailers out there. I would much prefer to pay a small fee to Tunecore versus trying to do my own accounting with dozens of retailers. Same with physical. Artists and labels aren't going to every record store in the world counting records and collecting checks.

For fuck's sake. Haters gonna hate. Be my guest!
Offering your bandcamp page doesn't cost you much (except that now it does). But your level of exposure is pitiful compared to having your songs available on EVERY digital retailer.

Also, I'm going to add to this argument here. Paying $50 or whatever to get your record into Spotify or whatever is basically paying $50 to have your music internationally marketed. There is a "Related Artist" tab in Spotify. Holy shit I LIVE by that button. Always checking out new stuff. Always. While Bandcamp is really awesome, distribution like this is gonna take a lot of FB likes, blog inserts, etc. I'd easily pay the $50 to have my record sent into orbit around the planet. Seems kind of amazing to me.

Jeff

[ubertar]

Where do these other retailers come into play? I thought how it was supposed to work is you (as a listener) pay your $10 a month, and you get access to spotify's library. So it's not really their library, it's all these other retailers? If this is supposed to be the new big thing, "the future of music", shouldn't it be free from all this baggage? This isn't an alternative (from the artist's point of view). It's the same old thing. Are you getting paid to post this stuff?

edit: this was in response to Chris. A couple cross-posts in there... this thread is moving fast.

[ubertar]

Jeff, that's an interesting point. I'll have to think about that.

[chris harris]

I'm just trying to help you understand a few things you obviously don't. But I'm tiring of it. In short, your last post exposed a continued misunderstanding of digital distribution. And I no longer have the patience or inclination to explain it to you.

Enjoy your wait.

[chris harris]

This turned from an interesting discussion, to you making uninformed and inaccurate arguments against every point you disagreed with or didn't understand. And it got boring and ruined the thread.

[ubertar]

What crap, Chris. You're not trying to help-- you're trying to push your own point of view. Fuck off.

I posted my opinions AS my opinions. No one forced you to argue or respond. If this thread is ruined, it's your fault. It's about time this gets locked.

[chris harris]

Hope it doesn't get locked. I'm still quite interested in the opinions of those who are excited or at least interested in what the future holds.

[ubertar]

You're only interested in the opinions of people who agree with you. I'm interested in what the future holds-- I just hope it's something better than what we're seeing now. With that, I'm out...

[chris harris]

This is interesting.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cas ... c-platform

[fossiltooth]

http://xkcd.com/386/

[Jeff White]

http://xkcd.com/386/

Hahaha I had that in the back of my mind all day yesterday.

Jeff

[donny]

There are so many ways to get people interested in your music that do not involve giving it away to consumers. You just have to get creative. If you can't think of any examples, I don't know what to tell you. I could make a list of my own personal ideas, but that might not work for you ... you have to come up with your own creative ways to do it.

vinyl is not going anywhere. it's not a trend. it's a natural progression and reaction against all of this intangible $hit going on.

There's no real money in digital downloads if you're 99% of musicians. That's it. You've got to come up with another way if you want to make money in music. Most importantly, you have to have an appealing product that is presented in a way that flatters your music.

[xrt99]

Wow this thread picked up the last few days. A few things:

It?s important to understand the difference between what Spotify and downloading (legally or pirated) are offering the listener.

Spotify is access based; you do not own the songs you listen to. You merely pay for the right to listen to them on Spotify?s platform. Downloading is ownership based; you are downloading so you can ?own? a file (term is obviously used loosely) that can be played on a number of platforms.

Up until recently, ownership was the only way to get digital music. And because it could be had for free, a large percentage of people stole their music. The argument of ?why pay for something when it can be had for free? can apply in this case because the value was in the individual file. But the dynamic of the digital music world is changing.

One inherent problem with ownership is space. How many files can you stick on one device before filling it up? Sure, a lot. But there?s still a limit based on the type of device you are carrying. So what do you do, get another iPod? Or maybe tote your computer and your iPod with you so you have all of your files? Perhaps you?ll even bring your external HD.

Spotify effectively eliminates the problem of space. But even more important is convenience. For average consumers, it?s going to provide access to most of the songs they will ever want to listen to. The same Spotify account can be used on a computer, phone, iPod, whatever. The bottom line is it?s convenient.

In a world where almost everyone has a smartphone and is busier than ever before, Spotify's appeal to the average listener is far greater than jumping on the Pirate Bay, mediafire, etc?dodging pop-ups?dragging files into their device?you get the idea.

[Gregg Juke]

>>>>When people have seen how you can stream my new record free on bandcamp, they've asked me, "Why will people buy it if they can hear it for free?". There's a point there.<<<<

Well, yes and no.

While the culture and mantra of this generation has been "Why... if I can get it 'free'?", the truth is that in the past, if you had a radio or a TV, or even a cassette player, you could "get it for free." People that really like music will want to own, or at least have regular, unencumbered access to the music that they like. The trick is finding those people! But, I also agree with the comment that donny made re: difficulty of making money with downloads and click-per-plays. In some ways, it's worse than the 1/2 penny royalty per record some of those rock & rollers used to get back in the 50's. Spotify, and other services like it, will be here to stay for the foreseeable future, and they should be part of your promotional arsenal and distribution model. BUT, that's not going to be the be-all and end-all. As I've said before, the "promise of the Internet" has not turned into the "reality of the Internet;" you can't rely on digital distribution alone to get your music out there.

And don't get me started on formats! We are in a complete quandry on what format or formats to release our next album in. But, I do have an idea on how to make an educated guess... More to come...

GJ