trouble recording toms

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xiandishinger
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trouble recording toms

Post by xiandishinger » Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:27 pm

having trouble with too much ring and not enough attack. i want low end on floor tom instead of mud. what mics and compressors are people using?

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farview
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Post by farview » Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:34 pm

It's probably a tuning issue and/or a technique issue.

If the drums are tuned high and they ring forever and the drummer just taps lightly on them, all the EQ and compression in the world isn't going to fix it.

Tune the drums so they don't ring and hit them in such a way that it creates the attack you need.

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Post by digitaldrummer » Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:03 pm

Don't be afraid to add some muffling if you need it but also listen to the drums in the mix and not just soloed. You may not need as much as you think. The heads you use can also make a huge difference-when did you change them last? What kind are they?

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Post by sessionsatstudiom » Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:40 pm

A video I specifically made about recording Toms.

Here it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZI9wema ... NSdRwDy_Q=
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Post by Bro Shark » Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:49 pm

Toms are brutal to record, but Keiths are the worst.

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Post by vvv » Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:14 pm

After trying a bunch of mic's (RE320, MD421 II, a bunch of small dynamics and Chinese LDC's - I keep meaning to try the CAD M179), my best result for floor tom is with the Sennheiser E 504/604 on top; compression is dependent on the song, and whether the tom is a main part - the more reliance on the tom, the heavier the compression, generally, between 4:1 and 12:1 in software at mixdown.

I get my rack toms from the OH's (currently spaced-pair AT4040 LDC's, just changed from Studio Projects C5 SDC's), no compression, light limiting.

I gotta good drummer and decent monitoring for him as he plays, don't even have to ride the faders.

We record into the Zoom R16, just use its pre's for drums and DI bass.
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Post by joninc » Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:15 pm

it's atleast 85% tuning IMO

i find it's hard to beat a 421 into a nice transformery preamp - vintech, tg2, isa 428 - not a whole lot of eq/compression required. that's a ton of low end without much of any eq. nice thwack 5k from the mics natural presence peak.

make sure they are in phase with your overhead(s) tho!
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Post by oldguitars » Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:42 am

yeah, good tuning and well hit should get you 90% there...
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Post by chris harris » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:03 am

Yep. Tuning is everything. Even tuned nicely, I still prefer a little less ring in close mic'ed toms than I'd want to hear in a live situation. So, I usually have at least 1 moon gel on each tom... sometimes, more than one. Especially on larger toms.

Then, I mic them fairly close with Oktava MK012.

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T-rex
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Post by T-rex » Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:57 pm

chris harris wrote:Yep. Tuning is everything. Even tuned nicely, I still prefer a little less ring in close mic'ed toms than I'd want to hear in a live situation. So, I usually have at least 1 moon gel on each tom... sometimes, more than one. Especially on larger toms.

Then, I mic them fairly close with Oktava MK012.
+1 on everything. Plus hit it hard and in the center. The further off center the more ring and weird resonances.

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Beat Poet
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Re: trouble recording toms

Post by Beat Poet » Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:47 pm

xiandishinger wrote:having trouble with too much ring and not enough attack. i want low end on floor tom instead of mud. what mics and compressors are people using?
Like others have said, it's all in the tuning. An O-ring will kill alot of the ring on lower-quality toms, but the tuning is still very important. Also consider hanging the floor tom off a mount/arm, if it isn't already. The drum will resonate freely if it's up off the floor, it helped with my floor tom alot.
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MichaelAlan
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Post by MichaelAlan » Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:33 pm

Dude.... Drums that are tuned and already sound good require minimal skill as a recordist. Get your phasing right and that's it... I have to agree with everyone that has said tune them, get them sounding right and it's easy. Assuming a decent room and performer.... dammit. :(
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Post by drumsound » Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:16 pm

Like snares, its how the OH and the close mics (not just the one on each tom either) interact.

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Post by Brett Siler » Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:35 pm

T-rex wrote:
chris harris wrote:Yep. Tuning is everything. Even tuned nicely, I still prefer a little less ring in close mic'ed toms than I'd want to hear in a live situation. So, I usually have at least 1 moon gel on each tom... sometimes, more than one. Especially on larger toms.

Then, I mic them fairly close with Oktava MK012.
+1 on everything. Plus hit it hard and in the center. The further off center the more ring and weird resonances.
I'm gonna add +1 to everything here too. Once the toms are tuned well then mic them with Oktava MK012s (if it requires close micing of course). That mic is THE tom mic IMO. With that mic the only thing I've ever had to do EQ is maybe scoop a little around the 500 hz area. That only happened when I miced the toms a little closer than I like because the drummers cymbals where positioned in a way that made micing the tops a very tight squeeze. No bgid deal. Normally they sound great as is though. They are also awesome overheads.

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Post by cgarges » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:11 am

One person has mentioned phase relationships, which are (in my opinion) the second most important thing to getting a good tom sound, next to the actual sound of the drum itself.

I never compress toms. Like, maybe I've done it two or three times in over 15 years of professional recording. I've gotten good tom sounds with EQ and without EQ, with dynamic mics, with condenser mics, with ribbon mics (even without close mics), with great preamps and with not-so-great preamps and the consistent factors for me are the actual tom sound at the kit, the phase relationships, and then having some clue about how different mic placements work. Need more attack? Use brighter mics and/or point the mics towards the point of stick impact. Do the mics you're using have enhanced proximity effect? Move them farther away from the drums. Maybe the extra low end is masking the attack sound. Want more bottom end? Point the mics closer to the edge of the drumhead. Maybe move them in closer. But maybe not. Sometimes moving them back a bit helps, especially with floor toms. You can get some cool stuff happening with top and bottom miking, too, but the phase relationships become even more important. And for me, all these techniques come AFTER making sure the drum is tuned for the sound you want and with consideration for the phase relationships of every mic on the kit.

Hope this helps.

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Charlotte, NC

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