Digital recording mastered to Cassette...
Digital recording mastered to Cassette...
Hey -
I'm currently working on an electronic based project, and as a lazy bedroom studio guy I'm loving how easy everything is to record in the box, etc. However, my love for warmth and analog fatness is nagging in the back of mind and I'm thinking of dumping this stuff down to a cassette deck when its finished.. either an old fostex 4 track, or even just an old mirantz stereo tape deck.. was wondering if anyone has ever done this? will an old well built mirantz do the trick or should i be looking at doing it with something else? I imagine this to achieve the type of effect I want, but wanted to post here before I did it.. out of curiosity..
comments, suggestions ?
I'm currently working on an electronic based project, and as a lazy bedroom studio guy I'm loving how easy everything is to record in the box, etc. However, my love for warmth and analog fatness is nagging in the back of mind and I'm thinking of dumping this stuff down to a cassette deck when its finished.. either an old fostex 4 track, or even just an old mirantz stereo tape deck.. was wondering if anyone has ever done this? will an old well built mirantz do the trick or should i be looking at doing it with something else? I imagine this to achieve the type of effect I want, but wanted to post here before I did it.. out of curiosity..
comments, suggestions ?
- Gregg Juke
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A machine that goes faster than 1 & 7/8 ips, with Type II tape, and maybe Dolby C? Cassette can be hard to get what you're looking for, compared to larger format, faster reel-to-reel machines, but it does have that saturation thing. You just usually have to trade hiss for tape compression. Maybe you can get your hands on a Nakamichi or a Sony Walkman Pro?
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- jgimbel
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I use my Portastudio 464 for this here and there. It's not the sound of a reel to reel but it definitely has an effect. Works great when it's appropriate!
My first new personal album in four years - pay what you want - http://jessegimbel.bandcamp.com
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My band had this done professionally once and we were disappointed with the results. Competent ME + top notch gear mastering from DAT tape. We had tracked to ADAT (Super VHS), then mixed down to DAT.
The problem is (in the end), cassette is a small format and it sounds... well...small. Just my 2 cents.
The problem is (in the end), cassette is a small format and it sounds... well...small. Just my 2 cents.
Last edited by KennyLusk on Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- jgimbel
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Absolutely, it works great when it's appropriate. When it's wrong, it can be very wrong.KennyLusk wrote:The problem is (in the end), cassette is a small format and it sounds... well...small. Just my 2 cents.
My first new personal album in four years - pay what you want - http://jessegimbel.bandcamp.com
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Did the VHS thing for a while, but found it kind of harsh and ultimately went back to reel to reel. The problem with using VHS Hi Fi is the high speed multiple heads and switching circuitry used on this format. Each head records its part and hands off the audio to the other head. When the circuitry tries to reconnect the slices of audio, there can be unpleasant sounding artifacts created. Especially in consumer units without time base correction. The use of the moving head was necessary to increase the effective tape speed so that video could be reproduced. Even then, the units needed to use heterodyne frequency reduction to synthesize the high frequencies that the tape could not handle. If any part of this process is affected by dropouts or errors in tracking, you can end up with some real unpleasantness.
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Why don't you just pay a competent ME to master your album? There are some with nice tape machines that could transfer your mixes on to them for the effect you are looking for.
It's not that the cassette won't have an effect on your mixes, but if you are attempting to get a professional sounding analog sound to your mixes, you should probably employ professional equipment to get the job done.
Of course, if you have a cassette deck, try it. If you like the results, there is your answer. You certainly don't need the approval of any of us.
It's not that the cassette won't have an effect on your mixes, but if you are attempting to get a professional sounding analog sound to your mixes, you should probably employ professional equipment to get the job done.
Of course, if you have a cassette deck, try it. If you like the results, there is your answer. You certainly don't need the approval of any of us.
- SafeandSoundMastering
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There are no rules as such but compact cassette is quite a compromised format and the quality will depend heavily on the tape and the machine.
A higher quality device would be required unless you are specifically going for a special effect of some kind.
cheers
SafeandSound Mastering
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A higher quality device would be required unless you are specifically going for a special effect of some kind.
cheers
SafeandSound Mastering
Audio mastering
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by accident i borrowed a stereo deck to master digital recordings on CDr and the deck had some kind of limiting function and it turned out well- for the most part the live drums and guitar sounded better and overall a little filtering. Of course the tape was run through an EQ to compensate for shelving loss. IMO it depends on the effect/genre.
http://bentwithlight.bandcamp.com/track/morningstar
http://bentwithlight.bandcamp.com/track/morningstar
I've tried sending the digital mixes to high-speed, high-bias, cassette tape, more than once, and both times I ended up keeping it digital and not using the tapes. I have friends who use cassette portastudios to record, and personally I like it. But I found a big difference between tracking on cassette and simply mixing-down onto cassette.
The differences between the digital and cassette mix-downs was that there was an unacceptable amount of hiss (by comparison) and the stereo-field seemed to shrink with tape. Whereas there was a subtle old-fashioned character with the tape that was missing from the digital mixes, but I didn't feel that this subtlety was important enough to persuade me to choose the tape over the digital mix-down.
I think to sum up what I'm trying to say: if it's going to end up in a digital format anyways, cd or mp3, that transfer to tape isn't going to change much for the better.
I'd say, if you want to go the cassette route, try recording the foundation of the music, the rhythm section, to cassette, then bringing those tracks into a digital format. That will have a greater affect on the sound. Or better yet, do it all in the analog realm, track - mix - master, then print it to tape for sale. But I think that most of us would agree that this is a difficult method if you're looking for good results.
I think, in closing, that using cassette tape in the way that you're intending is an effect, and that if you're looking to make your recordings sound better you should invest yourself into the practice of critical listening at the recording stage, listening deeply for the kind of sound you want before pressing record, instead of trying to fix it at mix-down.
Okay I'm done. Good luck.
The differences between the digital and cassette mix-downs was that there was an unacceptable amount of hiss (by comparison) and the stereo-field seemed to shrink with tape. Whereas there was a subtle old-fashioned character with the tape that was missing from the digital mixes, but I didn't feel that this subtlety was important enough to persuade me to choose the tape over the digital mix-down.
I think to sum up what I'm trying to say: if it's going to end up in a digital format anyways, cd or mp3, that transfer to tape isn't going to change much for the better.
I'd say, if you want to go the cassette route, try recording the foundation of the music, the rhythm section, to cassette, then bringing those tracks into a digital format. That will have a greater affect on the sound. Or better yet, do it all in the analog realm, track - mix - master, then print it to tape for sale. But I think that most of us would agree that this is a difficult method if you're looking for good results.
I think, in closing, that using cassette tape in the way that you're intending is an effect, and that if you're looking to make your recordings sound better you should invest yourself into the practice of critical listening at the recording stage, listening deeply for the kind of sound you want before pressing record, instead of trying to fix it at mix-down.
Okay I'm done. Good luck.
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^^^ Yes, this ^^^drumsound wrote:I think I'd choose a Mastering Engineer with a good 2-track and have him loop that master back through it and compare the two to decided which master I sent to replication.
Or book a few hours at a local recording studio with a good 1/2" and maybe a few pieces of kit with some nice transformers in them, and then send your own choices off to mastering.
A few hours in a cool recording studio with some actually kickass analog gear is likely to cost less than it would to purchase a lo-fi cassette 4-track in working condition.
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+2drumsound wrote:I think I'd choose a Mastering Engineer with a good 2-track and have him loop that master back through it and compare the two to decided which master I sent to replication.
It would really help the OP to be able to hear this compared, rather than it being hypothetical.
And yes!, there is a huge difference between individual tracks and stems getting sent to tape separately and summed afterward, as opposed to just taking a master and tape saturating it.
When I master, sometimes the chain goes through tape, sometimes not - totally varies per what sounds best for each project. And there are other ways to get "saturation glue" than tape.
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