8 Chennels of drums

[A.David.MacKinnon]

Or think of a line going through the shell of the BD and the head of the SD to get them centered in the stereo image. :D

Yes! I've been explaining this to people for the last 3-4 years but I still get records with lob-sided sounding kits. It's fine if that's what they're going for but 99% of the time that's not what they're going for.

[A.David.MacKinnon]

Back to the original question. If it was me I might use

- 4047s in XY for the room/ front of kit
- one ribbon for the OH
or ribbons as rooms/FOKit and one 4047 as the overhead. It would depend on the sound of the room and how bright the cymbals are.

- 57 is fine for snare but the other ribbon might be nice there too. It really depends on how much isolation you need.

- You might also think about using that extra ribbon (or 4047 depending on the setup) on one of the toms. Place your mono overhead and then listen to the cymbals. If the ride or crash isn't picking up well enough you could try using the closest tom mic to get some of that cymbal. The cymbal bleed will be tonally consistent with the OH and the toms will sound nice too.

- if you can bus 2 mics to one channel I'd try the D112 in the kick and the Mojave MA-200 on the front head. Blend to taste and print to one track.

[Corey Y]

If you've got a pair of 4047's I'd say +1 to a stereo room and mono OH. Forget about the FOK and get a mic on both toms. The stereo room will give you a lot to play with in the mix, depending on how big you want to go for each individual song (or part) with the room sound and you'll still get a decent stereo spread with the toms. You've got plenty to work with no matter which way you go. I think if you give yourself some time (with a few plans of attack in mind) to play around and see what grabs you, that you'll get something that works well.

[jgimbel]

I'm tracking a record for a label now and we're using a mono overhead (two actually for options) and stereo rooms, kind of acting as overheads. I'll be the one mixing it and I haven't been hearing anything that I'd want from stereo overheads that I'm not getting in the stereo rooms. While I do like mono overhead a lot I generally default to stereo overheads, but this record is making me reconsider.

In other words, +1 for stereo rooms over stereo overheads, especially if they're 4047s - nice mics!

[Mane1234]

One thing you might keep in mind for your OH if you use the ribbon is how much room you have above the ribbon mic. Remember since it's a figure 8 pattern you're going to be getting the other side of that mic and if it's right close to a ceiling it might not sound very good. Just thought I'd toss that out there since it was something I had to learn the hard way once.

[lefthanddoes]

Just to make things more difficult for you , many drummers I've recorded, including myself, will make a sour face if there is no bottom snare representation.
And here is where I clue you in on my personal preference of nudging the bottom snare mic 150-300 samples forward in time, rather than flipping it over, to maximize low end and keep it swishy.

Also another option for the stereo/mono room/OH ideas is to just get stereo OHs, so something happens when the drummer switches from hihat to ride, and put a stereo convolution reverb on your mono room mic, so when drummer does a big floor tom build you don't have a bunch of midrange on the right. Flame suit equipped. What's inarguable here, in classic TOMB fashion, is that many solutions work, and that there is always taste to be accounted for, and none of us have the "correct" answer.

[T-rex]

Depending on the snare you can get away without a bottom snare mic.

My only suggestion would be to put one of the FOK / Room mics outside the room, down the hall, top or bottom of the stairs etc. Unless you are recording in a really big room two mono room mics seems like overkill whereas one really ambient mic can make the drums sound absolutely huge. Like an awesome reverb but you just need to sneak a little in so it doesn't sound like reverb, it just sounds like the drums are huge.

I recently picked up some Fatheads and I am loving them on overheads. I would use them over the 4047s (which I also had and loved for years) unless its a really dark room or really dark set/cymbals. Which I am betting it ain't.

[mjau]

Or think of a line going through the shell of the BD and the head of the SD to get them centered in the stereo image.

I think of you explaining this to me in your studio every single time I set up for drums. Makes so much sense to put the snare and kick on a line like that.

[Nick Sevilla]

"I Got this"

Use two mics.

One omni placed so the drumkit sounds good overall.

One dynamic close to or inside the kick, for more kick.

[in2thegapagain85]

I recently picked up some Fatheads and I am loving them on overheads. I would use them over the 4047s (which I also had and loved for years) unless its a really dark room or really dark set/cymbals. Which I am betting it ain't.

Yeah I've been digging the FH as overheads too!

Lots of good tips and ideas to try, thanks for the help everyone. We're going to be doing pre pro on 1 more song, so I'll definitely play around and see what's gonna work the best!

One more thing I was wondering about...(I'm still a bit new to recording drums) If I use stereo room mics and a close snare mic, how should the mics be placed? Should the distance from the snare be equal from both distant mics to keep the snare centered? I realize this is less of an issue if I just go XY, but how about with a spaced pair? And which configuration do you prefer? Should I just stick with XY?

Thanks!

[A.David.MacKinnon]

I like XY mostly because it's easy to position (both mics on one stand means you can just pick it up and move it around) and it's easy to aim and it's easier to deal with phase issues between the L & R mics. I also like XY because it hears thing very much like I do - in stereo from one spot. That means I can walk around the room while the drummer plays, find a spot where things sound good and then put my XY pair there.
Quick, easy and it sounds good.

Measuring off your spaced pairs is never a bad idea but centring specific parts of the kit becomes less of an issue the farther you move away with the room mics. At a certain distance the kit will become one big source instead of 4-5 smaller ones.

[Snarl 12/8]

Based on this thread (I think) I tried stereo room mics a couple days ago. I didn't like XY for some reason. Although I didn't try it in a lot of places because I was recoring myself. (Not easy to audition mics.) It didn't sound right to me until I did what I think of as ORTF, or whatever that one is. The mics diaphragms were maybe 8 inches apart with the mics aiming away from each other at about 120 degrees or so. I thought of it as micing the walls on either side of the corner that the kit was in more than micing the kit itself. I mean they are call "room" mics, right?

[jgimbel]

Based on this thread (I think) I tried stereo room mics a couple days ago. I didn't like XY for some reason. Although I didn't try it in a lot of places because I was recoring myself. (Not easy to audition mics.) It didn't sound right to me until I did what I think of as ORTF, or whatever that one is. The mics diaphragms were maybe 8 inches apart with the mics aiming away from each other at about 120 degrees or so. I thought of it as micing the walls on either side of the corner that the kit was in more than micing the kit itself. I mean they are call "room" mics, right?

+1. I'm not a fan of XY overheads at all (in most any situation I've come across) but I like ORTF overheads a lot. I typically use spaced pairs though, angling based on what kind of sound is needed. Recorderman is one of my favorites, though I don't find myself using it that often. Hmm.

[drumsound]

Or think of a line going through the shell of the BD and the head of the SD to get them centered in the stereo image.

I think of you explaining this to me in your studio every single time I set up for drums. Makes so much sense to put the snare and kick on a line like that.

I think you were living in town when I really started doing that a lot. That's also when I got my MC102s.

"I Got this"

Use two mics.

One omni placed so the drumkit sounds good overall.

One dynamic close to or inside the kick, for more kick.

When it works, it works well.

[T-rex]

Based on this thread (I think) I tried stereo room mics a couple days ago. I didn't like XY for some reason. Although I didn't try it in a lot of places because I was recoring myself. (Not easy to audition mics.) It didn't sound right to me until I did what I think of as ORTF, or whatever that one is. The mics diaphragms were maybe 8 inches apart with the mics aiming away from each other at about 120 degrees or so. I thought of it as micing the walls on either side of the corner that the kit was in more than micing the kit itself. I mean they are call "room" mics, right?

+1. I'm not a fan of XY overheads at all (in most any situation I've come across) but I like ORTF overheads a lot. I typically use spaced pairs though, angling based on what kind of sound is needed. Recorderman is one of my favorites, though I don't find myself using it that often. Hmm.

I love ORTF and used it almost exclusively on the last two full lengths I recorded using my modded MC-012s. It sounds great and natural and even if you pan the OHs super wide it doesn't sound too wide. On a related note I used my fatheads in glyn johns with a 602 on bd through the TG1 limiter plug in and it sounded amazing. Like the best three mic sound I have ever gotten by far. Unfortunately I was just screwing around with the fatheads but damn.