Need acoustic guitar pickup recommendation for recording

Dr. Dank · Post by **Dr. Dank** » Thu May 17, 2012 6:52 pm

I am having some trouble with this one. I got my first piezo more than twenty years ago. I never really cared for the sound. But since I've learned more about recording, I have become convinced I achieve a better tone on all guitars and basses with a parralel DI signal.(Used w/Radial or Universal Audio direct boxes) Trouble is, I've been through about 3 different piezo's, and none give me a very clean tone. I am currently trying to fire up a pair of Martins ('71 D35 and a 2009 M-36).. I had heard alot about Fishmans, but even those seemed a little gritty when I heard them (in non-ideal settings.)

My dealer reccomended Fishman, Baggs (w or w/o bridge-plate mic) and the swedish Schertler Lydia (formerly Blue Stick), which now list at a whopping $409. He is an acoustic player, and actually seems to lean towards the L R Baggs "Anthem"

For these two guitars, I would spare no expense, to be honest. But more money doesn't always get the sound one is after. And of all gear I've ever bought, acoustic pickups are the most blind purchase, always paying for the gear and having it installed before I realize that it just doesn't cut it.

What I really want to hear is the engineers perspective, about what successes they've had w/ DI's which do the best w/fundamental tones. I have good mics, they handle the color and ambiance just fine. Currently, I'm scraping and $250 Highlander set-up, which was highly recommended by a long=standing west coast repair center.

Also, I'm curious to hear from the pro engineers about the specific point of using an active pickup (as was the Highlander, and the current high end Fishmans and Baggs.) w/ a DI Box. Do you ever A) skip the DI altogether B) Use only a passive DI box C) Use active boxes which have the voltage capacities to handle active pickups. (The Radial JDV reports 30V output rails, and claims to handle the active pickup just fine. I haven't checked the spec, but I assume the UA 610 can handle them as well.

If it makes any difference, I'm feeding a Midas Venice, (pre-Behringer) so the input pre-amps are pretty good.

Thanks for any input.

Dan @ Mountain Sound

chris harris · Post by **chris harris** » Thu May 17, 2012 9:24 pm

I think that the advice you'll get from most pro engineers is to forget about recording a DI acoustic. Even the best pickups are designed specifically to make your guitar sound as close to a mic'ed acoustic guitar as possible, in a live situation. The truth is, they all sound like crap compared to one or two really well placed microphones.

Nick Sevilla · Post by **Nick Sevilla** » Thu May 17, 2012 10:00 pm

Is this a live recording?
Live performance, with no recording?
Studio recording?

In most cases I always recommend a microphone.
Usually, a small diaphragm condenser, such as the Neumann KM184 or an AT series like the AT4051b or the like.
If the FOH engineer is any good, that should be fine, and sound great.

E-money · Post by **E-money** » Fri May 18, 2012 5:24 am

But since I've learned more about recording, I have become convinced I achieve a better tone on all guitars and basses with a parralel DI signal.

I disagree with this statement, but whatever works.

Acoustic guitar recorded through a pickup sounds like ass, even in parallel. Go listen to great acoustic guitar recordings throughout the last 40 years, The Beatles, James Taylor, CSN and a million more and I can almost guarantee that NONE of them had an acoustic pickup involved in the recording process.

If you are willing to spare no expense, spend it wisely. Get a better microphone or preamp, or spend it on room treatment. An acoustic pickup is made for live sound, not for recording.

Jim Williams · Post by **Jim Williams** » Fri May 18, 2012 8:05 am

As you have already found out, piezo pickups quack like a duck.

I use the "B-Band" system. It uses a capacitor element, not a piezo, therefore no quack. I did install a nice Analog Devices CMOS opamp, that lowered noise and improved slew rate.

No problems using that to record with, but I also have really good mics that I always prefer.

hogfish · Post by **hogfish** » Fri May 18, 2012 8:09 am

The Baggs Anthem is a good choice. Pricey (300 dollars) but is actually a SDC mic capsule that is installed about 3 inches ahead of the bridge plate. The only pain in the ass is the battery is installed at the front of the guitar at the neck joint. So when you have to change the battery, the strings have to be loosened, etc.... The system includes a piezo pickup that is installed at the bridge plate. So you have a mix between 2 sources, the so called "Tru Mic" and the "Element Pickup". There is a neat little control module that sits in the soundhole, and has thumbwheels for balance between the mic and the piezo, master volume, and switches for phase and a battery check. I have it installed in an Alvarez 12 string and it sounds quite good. The strings sound like metal, not plasticky at all, and the cavity resonance of the guitar is represented quite well. Recording wise, it sounds nice, but the problem is that the Mic in the cavity stays in one place, so if the guitar is sounding a little too bassy, you are pretty much stuck with that sound, unless of course you are EQing on the way in. Its great for live use too with rock solid feedback rejection........

MichaelAlan · Post by **MichaelAlan** » Fri May 18, 2012 10:33 am

To me a DI mixed acoustic recording always sounds like that first Dashboard record... which is good, I just don't want my guitars to sound that way...

Anyway I hear LR Baggs are where it's at but you're gonna pay...

Dr. Dank · Post by **Dr. Dank** » Fri May 18, 2012 10:41 am

I do greatly appreciate all the feedback. I agree that the pickup sound is crap compared to the real sound of a guitar. I am doing this work studio now, and have one great microphone (RCA 44BX) and several other fair to midlanders. I really did misunderstand about the use of DI for acoustic. It always does so much for my electric guitar and bass, and I made an assumption as to its acoustic potential. I do need one installed for live performance, so I'll go with the Baggs and see how it goes for my D35. I'll hold off on the M36 till I've heard more results, and that guitar stays in the studio mostly.

Really, this clears up a lot! Thanks for the help.

Dan

Scodiddly · Post by **Scodiddly** » Fri May 18, 2012 3:58 pm

The deal with piezos is that you need to plug them into something with a really high input impedance. Something like a Baggs or Fishman DI, or a Countryman 85. And nothing in between - no tuner, etc.

It'll still sound like a pickup, but hopefully not as horrible as some.

kayagum · Post by **kayagum** » Fri May 18, 2012 6:44 pm

My favorite piezo pickup hands down is a Mcintyre Feather.... cheap, simple, sounds great. Actually, pickups that are mounted under the bridge plate sounds better than under the bridge itself. You can also get those combo mic/pickup rig, use more mic than pickup.

You can also try a Fishman Aura pedal to get a more than decent emulation designed to work with a standard quavky piezo bridge pickup. You can even try this pedal and mic a powered speaker with it in the chain.

Definitely not purist suggestions, but I've had great luck with all of the above in past theater and sound design work. Don't knock it until you try it.

drumsound · Post by **drumsound** » Mon May 21, 2012 10:38 pm

acoustic guitar pick ups are a necessary evil of the stage. The only time I've ever recorded a DI, was as a scratch during basics or if it was feeding effects. Use mics to record your (I'm assuming) lovely guitars.

KennyLusk · Post by **KennyLusk** » Tue May 22, 2012 8:38 am

Never been a fan of recording AC guitars direct either, but if it's something you feel strongly about then B-Band kits have the most rounded and usable tones I've ever heard personally. I have a really low end AC guitar that has B-Band electronics and I find it can be useful for some background stuff but those tones never get a "feature" spot in my mixes. But, that's just me.

As far as pickups go, the Bill Lawrence A-300 is a very cool pickup.

Pickup sounds and DI sounds are a matter of taste and some people use those sounds very well and very successfully in their mixes IMO.

fedexnman · Post by **fedexnman** » Sat May 26, 2012 8:55 am

I hate all acoustic guitar pickups , Ive had alverez , lr baggs, fishmans ,sunrise , k & k , but they're a necessary beast for live performance . For recording at home not out live , I use mics Avenson Audio sto-2 an omni pair and Im more than happy , I hear my guitar like I hear it with my 2 ears . My main guitar is a Larrivee OM-3 Hog top too . If your dead set on using a pickups for recording (im against) , Id recommend the K&K pure western or the mcntyre acoustic feather . I have a K&K , but I heard alot of good things about the feather as well .

Sculli · Post by **Sculli** » Mon May 28, 2012 7:56 am

I've found the DPA-4099 a great mic in both live and studio applications for acoustic instruments. Just saying...

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Need acoustic guitar pickup recommendation for recording

Need acoustic guitar pickup recommendation for recording

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