Apogee GIO and the woes of a bad business policy

[wszalva]

I have been getting a lot of paying gigs lately involving guitar, so I figured it was time to check a GIO out. I am a longtime Logic user and a user of Mainstage, as well as an Apogee user going back to the AD 8000. I am also a current Ensemble owner/user and the integration between the Apple software and Apogee hardware is a strong incentive, to be sure. However, I have been on the fence on buying a GIO for a while: the price point is pretty high relative to the features, IMHO. Last week after a guitar-heavy gig I was thinking that it was time to bite the bullet and buy one. I thought that - assuming the GIO and its integration with the software was solid - using the unit for a few days with the latest version of Mainstage would impress me enough to close the deal. I really wanted to demo one for 24-48 hours... for me, watching people or paid reps via Youtube demo a unit is not good enough to really evaluate a product like the GIO, which is at a price point of around $400.

So, I trot down to Guitar Center and I am told that there is no way they will let me check it out without a 15% restock fee. After some hemming-and-hawing, I leave the store dejected. I'm bummed, but WTF? - I'm not surprised... it's Guitar Center, for Chrissake, a business not exactly known as the paramount of customer service, at least not here in San Francisco.

OK, that's fine, I figured. I'll just go right to Apogee; there has to be a way to try one out here in San Francisco, a pretty large market without a doubt. My experience in the past with Apogee has been great. I was really hot on the AD 8000 back in the day; I owned 3 of them running via a Logic TDM rig, and for a time I was doing some really interesting Beta testing involving the units. The tech support was great and very timely.

I contact Apogee via email to see about finding either a rep or loaner unit here in SF and, after about a week of emailing between their "sales rep" without any clear answers (he was urging me to come to LA and check out their studio!), I finally give up and actually call the company. After a short conversation with the receptionist and 5 minutes on hold, I am astounded to discover that the only way to try one is to buy one, and that Apogee also has a 15% restock policy. I ask if there is a rep in SF with a unit to try and the answer is "no."

So, after a whole lot of wasted time and unfulfilled expectations, not only am I soured on the GIO, but I am done with Apogee products. It's been fun, Betty, but this is no way to do business, IMHO.

Walt Szalva


###

[Jim Williams]

There is a reason for doing that. Otherwise, many poor musicians would buy stuff, use it and return it, in other words, a free rental.

Rather than blaim the company, ( I'm not an Apogee user) you need to find a dealer that will work with you.

That may be more difficult with a $400 item. Otherwise, consider the 15% restock fee another form of rental.

[dsw]

Gio is a pretty simple device. It sends midi messages to turn effects on and off. How hard can it be to decide whether you want one or not?

[Nick Sevilla]

Seems legit.

[kslight]

Not that it is the most honest way of going about things, but I suppose you could probably "receive the item broken" from an online vendor if you don't like it.

[percussion boy]

I would try the good online vendors like B&H Photo or Full Compass -- WITHOUT lying about what you're doing. Make it clear that you've done your research on the item and will put down the full price up front, and pay shipping back to them if you don't like it. Someone will work with you -- worst case, you pay two-way shipping for a little box.

I believe Mercenary Audio allows customer tryouts of some gear, but I haven't dealt with them myself.

---------
It's also possible you can find an individual at SF Guitar Center who will work with you, depending who you draw. I had a bad experience over there involving 15% restock for a big-ticket item, and no longer trust them. However, on one occasion a salesguy there offered to waive the restock fee if I wanted to try something, so maybe they have wiggle room on that.

Hope this helps.

[wszalva]

I have been getting a lot of paying gigs lately involving guitar, so I figured it was time to check a GIO out. I am a longtime Logic user and a user of Mainstage, as well as an Apogee user going back to the AD 8000. I am also a current Ensemble owner/user and the integration between the Apple software and Apogee hardware is a strong incentive, to be sure. However, I have been on the fence on buying a GIO for a while: the price point is pretty high relative to the features, IMHO. Last week after a guitar-heavy gig I was thinking that it was time to bite the bullet and buy one. I thought that - assuming the GIO and its integration with the software was solid - using the unit for a few days with the latest version of Mainstage would impress me enough to close the deal. I really wanted to demo one for 24-48 hours... for me, watching people or paid reps via Youtube demo a unit is not good enough to really evaluate a product like the GIO, which is at a price point of around $400.

So, I trot down to Guitar Center and I am told that there is no way they will let me check it out without a 15% restock fee. After some hemming-and-hawing, I leave the store dejected. I'm bummed, but WTF? - I'm not surprised... it's Guitar Center, for Chrissake, a business not exactly known as the paramount of customer service, at least not here in San Francisco.

OK, that's fine, I figured. I'll just go right to Apogee; there has to be a way to try one out here in San Francisco, a pretty large market without a doubt. My experience in the past with Apogee has been great. I was really hot on the AD 8000 back in the day; I owned 3 of them running via a Logic TDM rig, and for a time I was doing some really interesting Beta testing involving the units. The tech support was great and very timely.

I contact Apogee via email to see about finding either a rep or loaner unit here in SF and, after about a week of emailing between their "sales rep" without any clear answers (he was urging me to come to LA and check out their studio!), I finally give up and actually call the company. After a short conversation with the receptionist and 5 minutes on hold, I am astounded to discover that the only way to try one is to buy one, and that Apogee also has a 15% restock policy. I ask if there is a rep in SF with a unit to try and the answer is "no."

So, after a whole lot of wasted time and unfulfilled expectations, not only am I soured on the GIO, but I am done with Apogee products. It's been fun, Betty, but this is no way to do business, IMHO.

Walt Szalva


###

Thanks for the tips.

The gist of my rant is that Apogee markets their products at a premium price and feature set; IMHO, it is reasonable to have the option to evaluate a piece of their gear out and make sure it:

1) specs out as advertised

2) fits my work style and - in this case, since it involves playing music - my performing style.

So, if I were to buy a GIO and either of the above criteria were not fulfilled, then the fact that I would be forced to pay a 15% fee for the privilege of trying their gear is a deal-killer for me. I am a loyal customer and very willing to pay the premium price on gear, I just want to make sure it works for me.... not an unreasonable requirement, IMHO.

thanks -

[leftofthedial]

Ask youself, how would I feel if I bought a brand new unit from Apogee and they sent you one that someone had clearly demo'd and returned. Would you feel ripped off?

[wszalva]

Ask youself, how would I feel if I bought a brand new unit from Apogee and they sent you one that someone had clearly demo'd and returned. Would you feel ripped off?

I would feel ripped off if I bought a unit for $400 and it did not spec out.

[wszalva]

There is a reason for doing that. Otherwise, many poor musicians would buy stuff, use it and return it, in other words, a free rental.

Rather than blaim the company, ( I'm not an Apogee user) you need to find a dealer that will work with you.

That may be more difficult with a $400 item. Otherwise, consider the 15% restock fee another form of rental.

I totally understand the dilemma with returning gear... I am not looking to game the system, I do not want a free rental. I just want the option to demo gear, so maybe a rep or demo unit with a local dealer would be an option for Apogee to consider. When I bought the Apogee AD 8000s years ago I got to demo a unit for a week from a local dealer; so obviously the company has changed its policy and business model as their product line and the industry has evolved. I found two Apogee dealers (besides Guitar Center) here in the Bay Area and neither of them have a demo unit to loan out; both cited Apogee's 15% restock fee and the company's set-in-stone policy to that effect. Indeed, $400 is really not a whole lot of money, but I am not willing to pay $60 if the unit does not spec out, so therein lies the rub. I'm sure Apogee has done the calculations on their policy and factored it all into their price margins, so as the saying goes, "it is what it is." Unfortunately, it is not for me.

[kslight]

When I bought the Apogee AD 8000s years ago I got to demo a unit for a week from a local dealer; so obviously the company has changed its policy and business model as their product line and the industry has evolved.

I think that some factor is in the caliber of money you are talking here... $400 is pretty bottom dollar as far Apogee is concerned... I'm not even sure if you can get AD 8000s TODAY for $400 on eBay. They are in the disposable product price bracket with this item.

Just looking at eBay right now you can buy a GIO for $239-300. Why not buy a used one, and if you don't like it just turn it again on eBay. You probably won't lose $60 on the deal at leas, you may even make a little. And if you like it, then you saved yourself some cash. Seems WIN WIN to me.

From a business sense, in this price bracket I don't think it would benefit a company to offer a free "trial period" on their product...think about it. People in that market I believe are wishy-washy in general, not to mention the less than honest people that would take advantage of the situation. I don't think the margin is there on this type of product to offer it and not lose money. Or they could, you know, charge $100 more for the product to everyone and then offer a trial period.
Would you think that was a more fair option?

I don't think this situation is worth getting upset about and getting all fired up for on an online forum. You haven't bought the product, you have the power to choose whether or not they deserve your money. Their policy is clear.

[Jim Williams]

Restocking fees are to cover sending the opened product back to the manufacturer for repackaging. Once you open something like that you can't just tape up the tears and throw it back in the shelf like they do at Fry's.

You wouldn't want to buy that pre-opened product, you would demand a "new one".

As for unopened returns, I don't see a need for a 15% fee for that.

[hiddendriveways]

Manufacturers who have reps that are willing to lend gear to prospecitve customers are not common in the MI industry. It happens on occasion, but you will find the same rules apply to most gear, and this is in no way exclusive to Apogee.

The red carpet treatment is rare, especially if you're spending $400 on a consumer-ish footpedal.