Bad Reviews
- gavintheaudioengineer
- gimme a little kick & snare
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Bad Reviews
I get so down when I see something that I've recorded get hit with a bad review, especially when the reviewer makes comments about production quality.
I feel like reminding the world that 'we had 1 day and 12 songs to do' or 'the band were not very well rehearsed' or 'the band wanted the vocals sound like that, not me!' or whatever the reason was that the output wasn't quite up to tip top full blown perfection.
I can't quite seem to detach myself from the fact that, in some cases, my control is limited in terms of production but I've always respected the bands position as the artistic controllers and tried to give them what they want.
But it doesn't make it any easier when i'm also trying to build a good rep and try to ensure that everything I do sounds right.
I could be more selective I suppose with the work I undertake, but I'm not always keen to say no, since I feel I should take work when it comes.
What is everyone doing to maintain quality control on their releases even under resource constraints?
I was feeling so good about my work at the moment too!
I feel like reminding the world that 'we had 1 day and 12 songs to do' or 'the band were not very well rehearsed' or 'the band wanted the vocals sound like that, not me!' or whatever the reason was that the output wasn't quite up to tip top full blown perfection.
I can't quite seem to detach myself from the fact that, in some cases, my control is limited in terms of production but I've always respected the bands position as the artistic controllers and tried to give them what they want.
But it doesn't make it any easier when i'm also trying to build a good rep and try to ensure that everything I do sounds right.
I could be more selective I suppose with the work I undertake, but I'm not always keen to say no, since I feel I should take work when it comes.
What is everyone doing to maintain quality control on their releases even under resource constraints?
I was feeling so good about my work at the moment too!
"When you can't find the solution, you can always admire the problem."
- A.David.MacKinnon
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You can't win them all and it's important to remember that at the end of the day the majority if the responsibility and blame lie with the artist. The work will never be better than the source material which means you can do your best work on bad songs and they'll still be bad songs.
It's also best to take the long view on this kind of thing. Do you best work on every project and hopefully the good records will out-number the bad.
It's also best to take the long view on this kind of thing. Do you best work on every project and hopefully the good records will out-number the bad.
Great advice.A.David.MacKinnon wrote: Do you best work on every project and hopefully the good records will out-number the bad.
Also, you have to be really honest with yourself and see if the reviewer has a valid point. It's hard because they could easily be wrong and you get in this vicious circle of questioning your ability etc. but they hear a lot of music. One of my early recordings got a good review but they mentioned the production sounded a little "thin". Pretty subjective, but when I read it I knew already. I had suspected my hack attempt at mastering had taken a little too much bottom end out, but everyone was psyched about the recording. After that I enlisted an "actual" mastering engineer to get a second set of ears. That last feedback I got was from a radio program director who said, "we get a ton of independent CD's but yours sounds so much better than the rest." If not for that review I may have not gone down that path and recognized a weakness early on, which has made my current recordings better.
There are always going to be those albums that start with such great potential but get mired down for whatever reasons that are out of your control. In those cases David's advice above really is the best.
Finally, people who read reviews generally don't care about production. A band is going to come in because they liked what THEY heard or the band you recorded had a good experience and shared that with other bands. So a bad review isn't the end of the world for your reputation.
- gavintheaudioengineer
- gimme a little kick & snare
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Thanks for the great advice.
http://www.musicreviewunsigned.com/Mousetribes.html may as well post it up!
Of course the reviewer has indentified the problems with the recording, but as I say, my hands were tied with a band that a) demanded there be no reverb and b) demanded some odd tonal choices on the vocals especially and c) time. 6 tracks recorded live with vox overdubs, mixing and (hack) mastering all in one day- what more does he want? Yes, there is not enough bass in the first track, yes the tone of the vox is weird but that's what the band wanted, despite my advice.
On a more general point, I'm not sure it's entirely helpful to make too many comments on a band's production quality when the band are new, young, unsigned and broke? They could only afford one day in the studio. Does he expect them to burst onto the scene with an immaculate and powerful 14 dayer?
Look slike I'll need to start squeezing out even more for even less
http://www.musicreviewunsigned.com/Mousetribes.html may as well post it up!
Of course the reviewer has indentified the problems with the recording, but as I say, my hands were tied with a band that a) demanded there be no reverb and b) demanded some odd tonal choices on the vocals especially and c) time. 6 tracks recorded live with vox overdubs, mixing and (hack) mastering all in one day- what more does he want? Yes, there is not enough bass in the first track, yes the tone of the vox is weird but that's what the band wanted, despite my advice.
On a more general point, I'm not sure it's entirely helpful to make too many comments on a band's production quality when the band are new, young, unsigned and broke? They could only afford one day in the studio. Does he expect them to burst onto the scene with an immaculate and powerful 14 dayer?
Look slike I'll need to start squeezing out even more for even less
"When you can't find the solution, you can always admire the problem."
- Snarl 12/8
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Y'know, after my wife's experience putting on her play (she wrote and co-directed) twice. Reviewers just review what they see/hear. (Most of the time. She got a one-word pan by a local "magazine" that never even came and saw the play.) How much or how little work went into it doesn't factor in.
That review I just read sounded like the guy was disappointed. He heard something in that EP that he really liked, but it just wasn't quite polished or nuanced or whatever enough for him. That's why he sounds so bitter. Because you almost got him off, but not quite. Considering your resources, I'd take it as a good review. If you'd had 2 days you would have had him at "Okay."
How old were these guys? You gotta find a way to make people take your advice. I know, I know, I was young once too. The younger and stupider they are the less likely they are to listen to you. But you gotta say, "man, I've done a bunch of these one dayers. It's going to sound rough to people. That's just the nature of it. So, if we try to do weird "cool" shit, a lot of times we're not going to pull it off in a way where it sounds weird and cool, it's just going to sound shit. Please listen to me."
That review I just read sounded like the guy was disappointed. He heard something in that EP that he really liked, but it just wasn't quite polished or nuanced or whatever enough for him. That's why he sounds so bitter. Because you almost got him off, but not quite. Considering your resources, I'd take it as a good review. If you'd had 2 days you would have had him at "Okay."
How old were these guys? You gotta find a way to make people take your advice. I know, I know, I was young once too. The younger and stupider they are the less likely they are to listen to you. But you gotta say, "man, I've done a bunch of these one dayers. It's going to sound rough to people. That's just the nature of it. So, if we try to do weird "cool" shit, a lot of times we're not going to pull it off in a way where it sounds weird and cool, it's just going to sound shit. Please listen to me."
- HeavyHand
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this first track is most certainly not thin. he's way off with that. i mean WAY off. its a little too round for me actually. my biggest problem is the sound of the cymbals. they sound cheap to me. hardly your fault. but i think it really affects the quality of a recording.
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- Snarl 12/8
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If you did the best you could with what you were given I'd say don't worry about it, you don't need to justify or make a rebuttal...it just hurts your professional image more than anything. I think a poorly performed/produced/recorded record still reflects worse on the artist than the engineer. And I'd also say that if the artist is happy, then who cares what journalists think? My band's record got some pretty critical and unfair reviews...not on production, more I think because they had preconceived expectations of what the record should be, and it could not and would not ever be (they expected a metal record based on one member's most notorious project, we produced a weird mix of hip-hop/new york hardcore/industrial/indie thing). They compared it to goddamn ICP...I feel like reminding the world that 'we had 1 day and 12 songs to do' or 'the band were not very well rehearsed' or 'the band wanted the vocals sound like that, not me!' or whatever the reason was that the output wasn't quite up to tip top full blown perfection.
If you are concerned with the production quality due to time, maybe be the guy that tells the band that you think it'd be so much better if they could put a few more days into it...or whatever. Ultimately its theres, but I don't think there is any harm in letting them know that it is not the best it can be.
I suppose if you really don't want bands that rush through and have no money, raise your rates?
- Nick Sevilla
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- gavintheaudioengineer
- gimme a little kick & snare
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I liked the comparison to the theatre reviews, that's help put it in context. I suppose someone's always going to have an opinion based on immediately what they hear. Actually, that's something to keep in mind whilst mixing, 'how does this sound to the unknowing ear?'. It's fairly easy to get caught up in everything...
I realised that I should be happy that the bands I work with are even getting reviews, that the work I do is helping guys like that get to the places they want to go. That's pretty cool!
And to change it all up, I listened to an interview and exclusive play on BBC radio by a band I recently worked with who said on air that they were happier with my 2 day recording than they were with a 15 day stint at a higher spec facility. That was a confidence boost!
I shall stop being a pussy.
I realised that I should be happy that the bands I work with are even getting reviews, that the work I do is helping guys like that get to the places they want to go. That's pretty cool!
And to change it all up, I listened to an interview and exclusive play on BBC radio by a band I recently worked with who said on air that they were happier with my 2 day recording than they were with a 15 day stint at a higher spec facility. That was a confidence boost!
I shall stop being a pussy.
"When you can't find the solution, you can always admire the problem."
- joelpatterson
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I hope this doesn't sound naive or stupid or something, but... isn't that the question you need to keep uppermost in the forefront of your mind ALWAYS?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????gavintheaudioengineer wrote:... that's something to keep in mind whilst mixing, 'how does this sound to the unknowing ear?'....
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Hey, for what it's worth (I'm still a hobbyist you could say and musician myself), the demo sounds pretty damn good for a day's worth of work. I agree on the cymbals comment (though I didn't notice it explicitly until I read the post above on it).
I also always wonder what sort of headphones/system these reviewers listen on. When I first got a nice headphone amp and some HD600s I could not BELIEVE the difference I heard in records that I originally thought were great (and now noticed lots of flaws), or vice versa (seemed a little muddy but became really clear and distinct). I think that could perhaps make a huge difference, especially if the reviewer has not spent a LOT of time getting to know his/her setup by listening to many records on it. Obviously your stuff should sound good on any speakers so far as possible, but it's undeniable that I enjoy the 600s over my car speakers or earbuds.
Song-wise, I really like the vibe of "If Time Was Up to Me." It feels a little "busy" early-on, like with the bassline doing all that stuff...I'd prefer the bass riff to come in the pre-chorus/chorus and be a little more downplayed at first. Just for a little more "movement."
I also really liked the build-up at the end of "Rough" even though I didn't really dig the vibe so much when it started out.
And a nice vocal sound on "Okay."
I think that those are my three favorites.
But yeah, to my relatively-untrained ears (besides knowing what I like and what I don't), this sounds really good. At least I can't hear anything glaring that YOU should have been responsible for fixing. I agree with a lot of what's been said. Maybe reviews aren't the best thing to read, or maybe find a friend who's in the same line of work and read each other's reviews...then you'll have a B.S. filter but if there's some legitimate critique you can let the other know without having to worry over stuff. (This is something I'd do...because I find it hard to let stuff like bad reviews/disapproval go, so YMMV for sure).
I also always wonder what sort of headphones/system these reviewers listen on. When I first got a nice headphone amp and some HD600s I could not BELIEVE the difference I heard in records that I originally thought were great (and now noticed lots of flaws), or vice versa (seemed a little muddy but became really clear and distinct). I think that could perhaps make a huge difference, especially if the reviewer has not spent a LOT of time getting to know his/her setup by listening to many records on it. Obviously your stuff should sound good on any speakers so far as possible, but it's undeniable that I enjoy the 600s over my car speakers or earbuds.
Song-wise, I really like the vibe of "If Time Was Up to Me." It feels a little "busy" early-on, like with the bassline doing all that stuff...I'd prefer the bass riff to come in the pre-chorus/chorus and be a little more downplayed at first. Just for a little more "movement."
I also really liked the build-up at the end of "Rough" even though I didn't really dig the vibe so much when it started out.
And a nice vocal sound on "Okay."
I think that those are my three favorites.
But yeah, to my relatively-untrained ears (besides knowing what I like and what I don't), this sounds really good. At least I can't hear anything glaring that YOU should have been responsible for fixing. I agree with a lot of what's been said. Maybe reviews aren't the best thing to read, or maybe find a friend who's in the same line of work and read each other's reviews...then you'll have a B.S. filter but if there's some legitimate critique you can let the other know without having to worry over stuff. (This is something I'd do...because I find it hard to let stuff like bad reviews/disapproval go, so YMMV for sure).
Re: Bad Reviews
Do people really lose work because of bad reviews? If anything they would get more work from positive reviews, but I would be surprised if even that had a bearing. Seems to me that once anyone does some killer work people probably won't care so much about the budget albums they did back in the day. Might be different in a smaller town I guess.gavintheaudioengineer wrote:But it doesn't make it any easier when i'm also trying to build a good rep and try to ensure that everything I do sounds right.
I'm well familiar with feeling the need to explain things (but the raw recording wasn't very good so it was hard to mix, I had to do 12 songs that day, etc.). Audience feedback is an essential part of any process, but are music reviewers really your audience? I would say your audience is the band, their audience, people like that. Use their reactions as your input. Keep working at it and over time your bag of tricks will grow and you'll learn to set yourself up with gigs that you can shine on. Really that means you'll learn to start saying no to some gigs and to steer others into better processes and whatnot.gavintheaudioengineer wrote:I feel like reminding the world that 'we had 1 day and 12 songs to do' or 'the band were not very well rehearsed' or 'the band wanted the vocals sound like that, not me!' or whatever the reason was that the output wasn't quite up to tip top full blown perfection.
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