Room Mic Suggestions for Rock Concert Recording

kslight · Post by **kslight** » Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:38 pm

I've been working on some concert recordings lately (up to 24 inputs, employing a split so I'm separate from the house sound person) and while I'm pretty happy with what I'm getting, I do feel like I could do better with getting room/crowd. The gigs have been at relatively small (few hundred?) capacity clubs and I'm definitely limited by where I can be setup at the venue (I am usually either near the stage box or the front of house). The concerts are always loud hard rock/metal so I realize acoustic perfection is not going to happen...but I'd like to start picking up some gigs that are not hard rock as well... For close mics I've been using the house mics, but they normally don't put up drum overheads so I bring a pair of Rode NT5s which have worked decently for me, and sometimes I have put up a Shure KSM44 as an omni for a room mic, and another time I put up a pair of borrow Neumann TLM-103s (didn't really care for it) facing towards the mains from the FOH position.

I'm thinking that boundary/PZM mics may be the answer...any relatively inexpensive recommendations, and placement suggestions?

Gregg Juke · Post by **Gregg Juke** » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:36 pm

Hey k,

When you say "room," are you talking a 1) crowd/audience mike (for audience reaction and ambience only), 2) an audience-perspective mike (to get some quality overall mono or stereo picture of the band _and_ the audience), or are you looking for a 3) FOH-position mike to emphasize more of the band-from-front only? Perhaps not much difference in actual position or technical details, but it might help to narrow the field down a bit if there was some kind of application/philosophy concept attached to the question. Also-- I don't remember if you mentioned price-range, but what is it?

GJ

kslight · Post by **kslight** » Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:09 pm

Looking mostly for audience reaction and a little more ambience. I get plenty of the band with my setup, and I get crowd but maybe a touch light IMHO...could be the lack of enthusiastic crowd in the venue as well... Just want to be able to have a little more real ambience in between songs.

My price range is *relatively inexpensive"*...I think I'm 98% of where I need to be for the venues I am recording at, I don't want to spend a disproportionate amount to get a little more crowd...ideally if I can get out with only dropping a couple hundred in the used market I'd be great... Obviously looking for something that would be practical for setup/placement and not in the way of anyone.

Gregg Juke · Post by **Gregg Juke** » Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:55 pm

How about some used choir mikes that you could hang from the ceiling of the club?

GJ

kslight · Post by **kslight** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:50 am

Gregg Juke wrote:How about some used choir mikes that you could hang from the ceiling of the club?

GJ

Since I am not an employee of any club, I think this would be pushing practicality. Would a wall mounted boundary mic do the trick?

Gregg Juke · Post by **Gregg Juke** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:53 am

Gotcha on the practicality; but if you had enough set-up time, you could even use duct-tape(?)... just a thought.

Boundary mike is certainly worth a try. I guess any omni-type that is not too close to any one person or group would be ok (high enough would be the trick). I hate those live recordings (especially the ones I've been involved with!) where the audience mikes are too close to the audience, and instead of ambient crowd "wala wala," you get a conversation about the pizza those two guys had for dinner that's louder than the guitar solo...

GJ

vvv · Post by **vvv** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:25 am

Consider something like a Tascam or Zoom 2-track you can leave at the mix position ...

Sync would be something of a issue, but not too bad, especially if you just want it for between the tunes.

But also, leaving it running might give you a lo-fi back-up.

If you mount it onna boom stand it should be high enough and safe from theft.

And if the band is real good, you have a instant bootleg!

SafeandSoundMastering · Post by **SafeandSoundMastering** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:11 am

2 SM57's on a stereo bar has worked for me mid audience as has 2 AKG C3000's hanging of a stage bar pointing at the audience 6-8 feet apart.

Every gig is a bit different depending on access/size/options/rules at the venue. I did some live recording for a short period. I miss it in many ways
as it was very exciting work.

cheers

SafeandSound Mastering
Audio mastering

kslight · Post by **kslight** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:42 pm

Gregg Juke wrote:Gotcha on the practicality; but if you had enough set-up time, you could even use duct-tape(?)... just a thought.

Boundary mike is certainly worth a try. I guess any omni-type that is not too close to any one person or group would be ok (high enough would be the trick). I hate those live recordings (especially the ones I've been involved with!) where the audience mikes are too close to the audience, and instead of ambient crowd "wala wala," you get a conversation about the pizza those two guys had for dinner that's louder than the guitar solo...

GJ

Sorry was not trying to be snarky... I am rather short and don't travel with a ladder, and especially for "early" gigs where I am tearing down before closing time I want to be out of the way as much as possible.

Consider something like a Tascam or Zoom 2-track you can leave at the mix position ...

Sync would be something of a issue, but not too bad, especially if you just want it for between the tunes.

But also, leaving it running might give you a lo-fi back-up.

If you mount it onna boom stand it should be high enough and safe from theft.

And if the band is real good, you have a instant bootleg!

Yeah my problem is...I don't trust people much, especially the live sound guy...sometimes I get the feeling that they resent my presence. And sometimes I am pretty far from FOH so it would be tough to keep an eye on, let alone react to a theft in progress.

2 SM57's on a stereo bar has worked for me mid audience as has 2 AKG C3000's hanging of a stage bar pointing at the audience 6-8 feet apart.

How do you handle cabling/rowdy crowds in this type of situation? Am I too concerned with safety (cables) and being in people's way? I try to be as "invisible" as possible, but I guess what is the standard practice?

I did some live recording for a short period. I miss it in many ways
as it was very exciting work.

I'm not sure if exciting is the right word...especially when you are done setting up and its just sitting there watching the time on the recorder advance... It is exciting when its mixing time and you're like "wow this actually turned out!"

Gregg Juke · Post by **Gregg Juke** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:15 pm

Hey k,

If you're worried about safety/liability, and the sanctity and security of your gear (I get it; I know _I_ would be), you may have to throw optimum and even out-of-the-way mike placement to the wind, and set-up a tall stand right next to you, wherever your table is set-up. At least it will be in eye-sight and within arm's reach.

That's probably what I would do. I haven't had gear stolen at a gig, but I have had _lots_ of abuse.

BTW, no snarkiness detected or received.

GJ

Angie · Post by **Angie** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:34 pm

It depends on the size of the room, of course. But for small venues, we set a mic on each side of the stage facing the audience. 57's up to high priced Schoeps mics have been used depending on the damage potential and type of music of each show.

AndersonSoundRecording · Post by **AndersonSoundRecording** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:47 pm

Boundary mic's tend not to sound as diffuse as I'd like "room" mic's to be - but perhaps you'll have better luck with them.

I actually like TLM103's as "ambient" room mic's. I find their coloration tends to work quite well - especially in a situation where you have sound reinforcement. However, rather than pointing them towards the stage from FOH, why not do the opposite: face them back into the room from either side of the stage?

If you are looking for "audience" room mic's, something with long reach like a hyper-card or shotgun on stage (pointed at the crowd) can do the trick.

Clamping or hanging SDC's in the grid overhead can also be an easy fix.

Frankly, I think you'd be hard pressed to find something much better than your NT-5's - especially at that price point. In bars and clubs, it's nice to not have to worry about crowd interaction with an expensive microphone.

Record your ambience in stereo - not coincident, you're not looking for pinpoint imaging. I like a wide placement to decorrelate them so it feels like the ambience surrounds you in the mix.

YMMV

kslight · Post by **kslight** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:20 am

Frankly, I think you'd be hard pressed to find something much better than your NT-5's - especially at that price point. In bars and clubs, it's nice to not have to worry about crowd interaction with an expensive microphone.

At the moment the Rode NT5s are delegated as drum overheads... Yes I agree for what I paid for them ($100 for the pair used) they are decent, if I could find another pair (or indeed, buy something nicer for overheads) then these I wouldn't feel too bad about using for crowd mics...

vvv · Post by **vvv** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:26 am

Going that route (NT5's), heck, there are tons of cheap 603-type SDC pairs on Ebay. Did I say "pairs"? I don't think they even need "match" ....

How about Samson C02's here, for US$20. (Just a example, no affiliation w/ me.)

kslight · Post by **kslight** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:11 pm

vvv wrote:Going that route (NT5's), heck, there are tons of cheap 603-type SDC pairs on Ebay. Did I say "pairs"? I don't think they even need "match" ....

How about Samson C02's here, for US$20. (Just a example, no affiliation w/ me.)

Not a bad idea, but I think I would maybe just rather buy some nice overheads and use the cheap NT5s instead of collecting more cheap mics.

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Room Mic Suggestions for Rock Concert Recording

Room Mic Suggestions for Rock Concert Recording

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