Question about splayed walls - Wes Lachot's One Room Design

[Snarl 12/8]

Hey,

I'm thinking of building this...

http://www.weslachot.com/new/articles_eq.html

Has anyone done so and have any real world advice and/or opinion on using this as a home studio/practice/jam space? How do drums sound recorded in the wide end of this thing?

My specific question is about the space created at the thin end behind the splayed walls. Is there some way to use that space (filled with roxul or ultratouch (or anything) that would make the room sound bigger? The way I want to orient this thing in my basement, that space would be essentially wasted. I'm thinking about using spaced boards over that space to create huge bass traps without sacrificing all liveness, but does that work? Is it advisable? Must it be done very precisely, or can I just free ball it a bit? If this can (and perhaps should) be done, why isn't that just part of the plan?

Thanks knowledgeable peeps,

[Marc Alan Goodman]

The whole idea of the splayed design has to do with the fact that there are less reflections coming back towards the mix position. For tracking the splayed walls don't really do you the same amount of good, though they do cut down on standing waves and prevent things like flutter echos. Bass trapping certainly wouldn't hurt, though if you have a limited amount it would be better used towards the back of the room I think.

As far as the splayed spaces, don't overlook the value of a good closet and/or machine room. Most small studios seem to forget about storage :) but being able to pile things somewhere out of sight will make the place feel a thousand times bigger for the people in it.

Also you don't have to follow that plan exactly. Maybe try it where the splaying starts a third of the way along the side walls. That way you'll get more useful closet type spaces out of the splays and save yourself a little bit of square footage. Those back corners would then be a good place to pile in the bass trapping.

[JWL]

That's one of my favorite studio designs that is still reasonably simple to build.

Splayed walls generally need to be at least 12 degrees to get the beneficial aiming of first reflections behind the listener. Anything less than 12 degrees and you should probably just build a rectangular room.

Storage might be an option in the spots behind the splaying....

[norton]

Drums can sound great in rooms lie this. Of course you've still got some corners to deal with...but generally speaking that shape does deliver nice overall room sounds.

I've just completed a room similar to this design, but with iso booths in the corners...more of an octagon. Empty the room had a 3 second reverb, and was really nice sounding. We put up a curtain along the longest sidewall...and cut the verb time in half if not more...sounded great. Next we dropped in a large carpet for a full band rehearsal...again verb cut down substantially, but the room still sounds great

High detail resolution yet still spacious.

[digitaldrummer]

mine is rectangular and I think it sounds fantastic on drums (that's why i built it). empty it was like an echo chamber. bass traps and a few well placed panels here and there tamed it so it just has a nice "live" feel without ringing. I have more panels at the peak of the ceiling and at the mixing end than at the other end (that you can't see in this picture) - that's where I usually place the room mics. I usually put guitar amps toward the "live" end too.



dimensions: 19x25 ft. 10 ft walls going to 15 ft peak.

[Snarl 12/8]

Thanks for necromancing this thread. I didn't want to be obnoxious(er than usual) and bump it. I appreciate the insights.

DD, I'd give my left nut for your setup, but alas, it's apparently worthless or I'd have traded it for something already. I'm in a basement, with a 7 ft (to bottom of rafters) ceiling. I notice you have a little non-parallelism going on with your ceiling, I'm just after a bit of that mojo. I've heard over and over that it's not worth it if you're gonna be sacrificing sq ft'age under a certain amount (2500 ft^2?) I do a lot of going against the conventional wisdom and then regretting it later. But I'm a sucker for a reasonably complete, ready made plan though. I recorded for years in a teeny, tiny room at my old house. I got some compliments on my drum sound in there, which I attributed to the fact that it was basically a triangle. (With two really short extra sides.) So the splayed walls in a much bigger (for me) space really appeals to me.

Thanks again,

ck

[JWL]

It will be a challenge to get a good reverb time out of a room with 7' ceilings. The best way you can treat low ceilings is with a lot of absorption. I'd use a bunch on the ceiling, and the best bass traps in the 4 corners that you can. The splayed walls will mean you don't need as much absorption on the walls.... if you can put the drums at the narrow end of the room so all the sound is aimed toward the wide end of the room, and put your room mics on that end.

[Snarl 12/8]

I'm almost thinking about tacking up a few layers of drywall to the underside of the floor above and doing the 8" of insulation between the joists thing for the ceiling, but I'm not sure that'll get rid of enough footfall/TV/door slam (I've got 2 teenagers) noises. I'm almost thinking about just trying it that way, and if I have to, I'd hang a ceiling under the joists later, but that'll totally change the dimensions I should use on the sides, right? I've got a big beam running down the middle of my basement, if I go 7' ceilings I don't have to deal with it at all, but if I scale out to 8' ceilings and adjust all the other dimensions to match, I'd have that beam coming into the space on one side.

Edit question: Is there any way to know in advance how much isolation a few layers of drywall (and 8 inches of insulation) tacked up between the joists would add to the festivities?

[JWL]

Be very careful when doing this. You can definitely increase iso but you need to build it the right way. You want a 2-leaf, Mass/Air/Mass construction system. If that were my room and I wanted to maximize iso, I'd cut drywall into 16" strips so it fits between the joists, and then nail them in place so they are between the joists, touching the ceiling above. I'd add 2 layers of these drywall strips, with green glue between them. Make sure everything is airtight going to the floor above. Once all these drywall strips are installed cover them with thick insulation, down to the bottom of the joists.

Then, I'd install 2 more layers of drywall sheets under the joists, using resilient channel or RSIC clips, again with Green Glue between each layer. Again, make sure everything (perimeter, etc) is airtight.

That will dramatically improve your iso.

Here's a good guide, very instructive:



If you build it as I've described above, it should give you similar results to the right picture above, ie, 63dB of noise reduction, and that's before Green Glue. GG should get you up into the 70s....

[Snarl 12/8]

Thank you JWL. I've got the Rod Gervais book, not that I understand it 100%.

What I'm asking specifically is what kind of iso I can expect from basically a beefed up 1 leaf system. Like if I tack up 2 layers of drywall, maybe gg between them to the bottom of the floor above, but don't do the drywall on the underside. Can I get 30-40db of iso that way? (Not that I know what my iso is now from just the floor. Or, I guess the real measure is how much iso does 2 sheets of sheetrock add to a single layer wall? That way I could keep my ceiling height much higher. I don't need perfect isolation. My family doesn't mind my drumming (they say) and I can handle a few blown takes, if it would mean a much bigger sound on the keepers. I'm mainly trying to isolate against the washing machine, the boiler, the tv, more constant, midrangey/trebly sounds, footfalls would be nice too.

ck

[goldstar]

Hey Carl

My pal Jeff Elbel has a room built to Wes's plan. He has a tiny bit of info here:

http://www.netads.com/music/marathon/happyclub/

He's a good guy, so contact him if you want feedback on the design.

Frank