Lest we forget ...

vvv · Post by **vvv** » Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:13 am

"FUCK THE OLD SCHOOL. THAT'S WHY THEY'RE THE OLD SCHOOL. THEY'LL ALL BE DEAD SOON AND WE'LL SNARK ALL THEIR WORK!!!!" - Slipperman

I'm larfing my butt off re-reading this yet again one more time obsessively as tho' it's my first; great stuff on recording and not just about guitars.

"First, Put in some fucking earplugs, ..."

SafeandSoundMastering · Post by **SafeandSoundMastering** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:49 am

Sure but the old school represents, tried and trusted techniques.
In contrast the new school ignorance is not where it's at, it's easy to get cocky, not so easy to make stellar recordings.

Cheers

SafeandSound Mastering
online mastering studio

Nick Sevilla · Post by **Nick Sevilla** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:42 am

SafeandSoundMastering wrote:Sure but the old school represents, tried and trusted techniques.
In contrast the new school ignorance is not where it's at, it's easy to get cocky, not so easy to make stellar recordings.

Cheers

SafeandSound Mastering
online mastering studio

True, that...

vvv · Post by **vvv** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:44 am

Look, at 52, in yet another garage band, recording for 20 years and playing loud guitar for 40, bass for 5 and now learning keys, all the while caterwauling thru the dope and the hang-overs as I try to get laid by some young ...

Well, I am old-school.

I just thought it was a funny quote, and the first I larfed out loud at in that great piece with, as I said, "great stuff on recording and not just about guitars."

Now, get onto my lawn.

E-money · Post by **E-money** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:35 am

The only issue I have with the quote is that I think most rock music recordings have sounded like shit since the late 70s/early 80s.

dfuruta · Post by **dfuruta** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:50 am

I don't know; it's pretty frustrating how conversations about the state of recording (on certain other forums & in real life, not here so much) always seem to turn into misty-eyed nostalgic wank-fests about the good ol days...

It's not like old recordings are necessarily so great. I was listening to A Love Supreme the other day, one of my favorite albums, and it struck me that the recording sucks. With playing like that, it doesn't matter, but the sound quality is really not so good! Everything is thin and crunchy, the balance is unnatural, the panning is bizarre, Elvin Jones sounds like he's been stuffed in a box, and there aren't any lows or highs. A lot of old classics seem like that. The ideas and the playing are great, but the recording isn't anything special by modern standards. Motown? Great! But it's the songwriting and the performances, and it would sound great with any reasonably competent engineer behind the console.

I think there are a few things going on. A lot of the people who jizz themselves exclusively over old recordings seem to be unaware of anything modern outside of the mainstream; their complaints about "everything is squashed and synthetic!" just aren't true if one takes the time to find music that's not on the charts (and, ironically, a lot of the people responsible for the state of the mainstream are of the "old school"). Someone whose musical tastes stopped changing in the 70s or 80s might be understandably dismayed by newer genres and aesthetics, metal and hip hop being big ones. Also, it seems to me that it's at least partly a marketing tactic: "you won't sound good if you don't have this tube mic and this classic console" or "our studio has vintage gear!"

Nick Sevilla · Post by **Nick Sevilla** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:02 am

dfuruta wrote:I don't know; it's pretty frustrating how conversations about the state of recording (on certain other forums & in real life, not here so much) always seem to turn into misty-eyed nostalgic wank-fests about the good ol days...

It's not like old recordings are necessarily so great. I was listening to A Love Supreme the other day, one of my favorite albums, and it struck me that the recording sucks. With playing like that, it doesn't matter, but the sound quality is really not so good! Everything is thin and crunchy, the balance is unnatural, the panning is bizarre, Elvin Jones sounds like he's been stuffed in a box, and there aren't any lows or highs. A lot of old classics seem like that. The ideas and the playing are great, but the recording isn't anything special by modern standards. Motown? Great! But it's the songwriting and the performances, and it would sound great with any reasonably competent engineer behind the console.

I think there are a few things going on. A lot of the people who jizz themselves exclusively over old recordings seem to be unaware of anything modern outside of the mainstream; their complaints about "everything is squashed and synthetic!" just aren't true if one takes the time to find music that's not on the charts (and, ironically, a lot of the people responsible for the state of the mainstream are of the "old school"). Someone whose musical tastes stopped changing in the 70s or 80s might be understandably dismayed by newer genres and aesthetics, metal and hip hop being big ones. Also, it seems to me that it's at least partly a marketing tactic: "you won't sound good if you don't have this tube mic and this classic console" or "our studio has vintage gear!"

I agree that there is a lot of mental masturbation going on about the imaginary goodness of old recordings.

As to that "A Love Supreme" there the issue is that it was done quickly, onto vinyl and cassette medium. And then you probably bought a digitized remaster which might have been a suck job as well.

But I like that sound of that record. I don't like a lot of the "modern Jazz" because it sounds too clinically "clean and neat" and has lost it's grit, it's soul. My complaint is both about the recording, which is not creative in any way, and sounds slat, two dimensional, lifeless, and then the damn performances, they suck too. too scripted, too much of that whole imaginary world again in regards to "that's the mic to use to get that [not true] sound" and also "I don't want to stretch the envelope, because my [nonexistent] fanbase might complain".

Fuck those sort of albums. I am always looking to hear a performance where the lyrics or the notes being played are actually connected to the sounds coming thru the speakers. THAT is what's missing right now. You just don't feel anything at all listening to most music today. Where are the emotions?

I'm currently mixing an electric Jazz trio album, and I am stretching the envelope with the mixing as much as possible. The artist has stated they don't want to sound like everyone else, and yet they keep telling me to "play it safe". Well hell no I ain't "playing it safe" after you tell me you want to push the envelope.

I think the common thread in all these new recordings, whatever the genre, is a FEAR OF FAILURE. And this fear can stench up any recording at a moments' notice. It definitely stops people from advancing the musical and the technical aspects all the time.

Cheers

vvv · Post by **vvv** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:01 pm

I have a re-master of A Love Supreme that I like just fine, altho' I been listening to 'Round About Midnight a lot in the last cuppla weeks, along with that new 1967 Miles "bootleg".

Alla that aside, all y'all seem like ya need a good larf, so read some of the Slipperman I linked above!

And when ya have to listen to new, soulless crap, foller his speaker-testing advice and "First, Put in some fucking earplugs, ..."

Gregg Juke · Post by **Gregg Juke** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:56 pm

Yeah, good point dfuruta, but I totally disagree on the sound quality of A Love Supreme.

But, when there are a lot of reissues, you never know what you're going to get.

GJ

dfuruta · Post by **dfuruta** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:19 pm

Yeah, I don't know. I've got the 1995 MCA/GRP cd. Maybe the newer (or older) releases are better. But, van Gelder did some pretty extreme stuff to the sound of those instruments...that's come to be the classic sound of jazz, but I think it's much more thanks to the performances than the recording quality.

Even the later van Gelder Coltrane records sound better to me. Interstellar Space, for example, is nice and realistic to my ears.

This is a tangent, but it seems to me that "modern jazz" went to shit once they started teaching it in conservatories and institutionalizing it as a fixed, stable thing (ie Wynton)...

I thought that Slipperman ramble was really great. Stumbled on it a few years back.

GlowSounds · Post by **GlowSounds** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:22 am

alot going on in this thread... but one quick thought:

blanket statements like "modern jazz went to shit..." are not totally informed.

ya, there's alot of lame shit coming out of conservatories but don't forget that there was also alot of lame shit floating around back in the gritty, untrained (romanticized) old days.

Assessing the current state of anything vs. that of history is a tricky thing that we humans in a linear world have navigate carefully.

lefthanddoes · Post by **lefthanddoes** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:37 am

Assessing the current state of anything vs. that of history is a tricky thing that we humans in a linear world have navigate carefully

No we don't. There's no consequence whatsoever to navigating it carelessly and speaking about our experiences with full confidence. Have you ever seen the Internet?

Greener · Post by **Greener** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:18 am

[quote="vvv"
Now, get [i]onto[/i] my lawn.[/quote]

You have lawn... Decadent fuck.

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