Post your clicks

Snarl 12/8 · Post by **Snarl 12/8** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:40 pm

Hey,

I've been trying off and on to learn how to play to a click. What are you people using for click tracks? I really want to have more nonstop "drive" in my drumming.

Anything creative out there, or does everyone just use a 4/4 (assuming the tune is 4/4) beep that's a bit louder on the one? I'm listening to the newer version of Sacred Ground by Living Colour and it seems like he's using a weird loop of some percussion as a click. I remember him setting this up and using something similar when I saw them live too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uf-EY6-4DA (Around 1:30 they bust into the main groove) Do you think he's listening to a beepy thing in his cans?

It seems like there must be more inspiring things to drum along to than that beep, or just a cowbell sound playing the quarter notes. I've been trying simple patterns on my drum machine, but nothing's struck me as "the ticket." Also, I'm not sure how I should be quantizing it and/or how much swing to use.

I'd love to know what works for other drummers. I'd love to hear people's ideas, rumors they've heard and/or the actual click tracks themselves, that people really like to use.

Thanks,

Nick Sevilla · Post by **Nick Sevilla** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:08 pm

I have been using either the default click from NoTools.

Or Arturia's Spark, when there's a little time to program a quick rhythm.

dfuruta · Post by **dfuruta** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:11 pm

I'm not a drummer, but I've found it very helpful to have the click track give me 8th notes when I'm doing something that needs to be precise (stacking guitars, for instance). This is for metal, though?might not be helpful in groovier genres!

Gregg Juke · Post by **Gregg Juke** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:48 pm

CK,

It's aweful to try to play to 1/4 note or 1/8 note beeps.

Try something that won't get disguised by your own downbeats. One secret is to do your main click groove in 8th notes (or 16ths; double-up on the tempo you're trying to match, whatever works best), while having something on the _upbeats_ that sticks out like a sore thumb... Cowbell, high-pitched claves, whatever. The offbeat thing seems to help people lock a lot better. I know it helped me, because then you can hear it clearly in the cans because it's not masked or half-masked by the bass and snare. You know when it's on.

Another trick I heard from this guy from Niagara Falls (Ed Roscetti) that's a pretty busy studio guy in LA now-- Use whatever click you have/can get/are given (hopefully doubled-up to 8ths or 16ths). then take a couple of passes against the click with a shaker or two, playing a very simple pattern that doesn't have a lot of syncopation, but has a nice groove with the click.
Then play along with both; you can lean on your own groove as you listen to the shaker.

I can play with a click, and I'll do it when I have to, but I must admit I kind of hate it. I've gone the other way, trying to get solid without one, but with support from things like the Beat-Bug (another great Buffalo invention). I've got the original, but there are some spiffy new models ("new," like, since the 80's). http://www.luglock.com/tempometers.htm

GJ

Dan Phelps · Post by **Dan Phelps** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:03 pm

If I'm playing to just a standard click sound (like in Pro Tools or from a metronome) then 1/8 notes is what I like. It's definitely easier for me to keep on track when I can hear the up beats.

Sometimes I play to loops or programmed stuff, but I've learned that if the loop isn't intended to be heard in the final mix that I have to make sure it's not doing too much heavy lifting in terms of the groove or feel. i.e. it may sound great with the drums and loop together, but weak or weird when you mute the loop.

Also, playing to a 1/16 or dotted 1/8 delay can be a fun what to do it...just lock inyo the delay repeats. Same thing applies of making sure it sounds good w/o the delay. Or just leave the delay in!

The Scum · Post by **The Scum** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:14 pm

A Boss Dr Beat or Tama Rhythm Watch (which I suspect is made by Roland for Tama) are kinda staples in my world.

They use a variety of tones for different subdivisions - a strong downbeat, something else on the quarters, yet more on the eights, 16ths and triplets. You can turn each up/down to fit what you're doing.

Sometimes experimenting with what you're hearing can help...some patterns or feels need different training wheels. A recent tune I was playing on shifts between rock and a heavy calypso feel...the rock was fine with just 8ths, but the calypso benefited from hearing the 16ths, to help keep the dotted 8th's (that otherwise fells between the clicks) lined up.

The Tama offers a couple of different voicings, I find "mode 2" to be easier to follow. It also has a tap-tempo option, can set the downbeat to meters other than 4, and patch memory, to remember your settings.

A couple of it's foibles:
-It tops out at 300 BPM. I recently had to do a tune at 306 bpm by setting the thing at 153 BPM, 2/4, and turning up the 8ths.
-You can't adjust tempo while it's running. With each click of the wheel, it restarts the pattern.
-It's not entirely adequate for drive heavy duty phones on it's own. Coupled with a good cans amp, it's great.

vvv · Post by **vvv** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:24 pm

No help here, but I love the LC! What's with the clear cymbals? Mebbe they are triggers?

accordion squeezist · Post by **accordion squeezist** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:35 pm

This has been working for me - Give my client a rosewood percussion stick and a regular drumstick and ask him to beat out a click track. If we need 1/8th notes ask him to finger tap on the back of a guitar. I'll record maybe 15 seconds of it and loop it out to 4 minutes or whatever. It's a pleasant non-intimidating sound to work with and we get takes. Like Greg says, "it's nice to lean on your own groove"

Woodeye · Post by **Woodeye** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:35 am

A lot of my stuff starts with an acoustic guitar track , either strummed or arpeggiating through chords; my favorite click to this point has been a ride cymbal on the 8th notes, usually a looped pattern rather than using it as the metronome sound, so there's a bit of a groove due to the velocity in how I played the pattern.

drumsound · Post by **drumsound** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:47 am

I usually use an old Alesis drum machine, playing eight notes on the hat, or maybe a shaker type sound. and a BD on one. Sometimes I put a snare on 2 and 4. I have had clients that prefer quater note cowbell, even though I've tried to get them into eight notes, as I believe their drummer would have stayed on the click better with them...

If I'm the player I'll sometime go a little further and do something with toms or percussion sounds, but most clients haven't liked that much.

MoreSpaceEcho · Post by **MoreSpaceEcho** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:12 pm

good topic.

me and ms mse are recording some songs, we started by recording guitars to super simple beats i made on an ancient roland drum machine. that was no problem, but overdubbing drums to that has been a challenge. for the next batch of songs i think i'm gonna just make a percussion loop rather than a beat, because trying to get the feel right whilst playing to a drum machine has not been fun. maybe i just suck, i dunno.

agree with having the accents on the upbeats, it's easier to hear, and i also think it helps the drums groove more, as that's so much more inspiring to play to than clang clang clang clang on all the downbeats. i usually record a tambourine part before doing the drums to try and help the feel out a bit.

sort of on-topic....since most of my songs start out with guitar, i've noticed that almost invariably the first couple 'scratch' guitars i record end up being the best, feel-wise. even if i'm playing to a shitty drum machine. basically i feel like the first guitars i throw down sound like The Song, whereas if i try and redo them later, it sounds like i'm playing the song. if that makes any sense.

Snarl 12/8 wrote: I've been trying simple patterns on my drum machine, but nothing's struck me as "the ticket." Also, I'm not sure how I should be quantizing it and/or how much swing to use.

i've been thinking about this too. if anyone can recommend a drum machine/sequencer where the swing actually sounds good, i am all ears.

also, that living colour tune.....eeeesh, not so good. corey glover....oof. but goddamn i could listen to vernon reid play guitar solos for days on end.

plurgid · Post by **plurgid** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:45 pm

wanna second what Greg said about the shaker. It's money for making you feel where the down beat is going to be, because chances are you're going to be playing on top of the click.

My go-to for years has been 808 hi-hat 8'ths, then record a shaker loop grooving over that. Good stuff. The 808's hh is so crispy it cuts through almost everything and the shaker communicates the groove.

MoreSpaceEcho · Post by **MoreSpaceEcho** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:52 pm

plurgid wrote: chances are you're going to be playing on top of the click

i sure do. why is this? too much coffee?

Gregg Juke · Post by **Gregg Juke** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:20 pm

No Space! You're supposed to! It's just so hard to figure-out if you're really "on" when you're "really on," because you're covering up the quarter-note click. (Which makes sense-- of course you are, because then you're right on, right?)...

Even if you mean "on top of the beat," in that "ahead of," "on," or "behind" kind of sense, I think you're still ok. The whole thing gets weird when someone wants "the bass drum on the beat, the hi-hats a little ahead, and the snare drum behind... But, y'know, keep it cool with the click."

Whaaaat????

GJ

MoreSpaceEcho · Post by **MoreSpaceEcho** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:24 pm

yeah i mean i seem to always be ahead. but i'm ahead regardless of what instrument i'm playing, so if i'm playing everything it works out in the end.

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