How much gain do your mics need?

[drumsound]

I guess I've never really thought about it. Turn the knob until the level is high enough.

[goose134]

At the risk of sounding stupid: most folks have a compressor in the signal chain even if they're not compressing. If you need additional gain, why not bump the makeup gain on the comp before you hit your console or DAW?

And speaking of reverb chambers, I never understood the massive gain needs for mics in a reverb chamber when the PA speakers in there are so pumped, and I've seen it done in some really sweet chambers. Never understood it.

Another thing about the "need" for so much gain is I've heard some fella's complain about the self-noise of AT mics (for example) and my eyes just flutter and I think "WTF?...are you serious?", but then find out they've got their gain maxed at +60dB or +65dB. Holy crap, what would you expect at those levels?

Again though, maybe I'm stupid.

Not a stupid point at all. I will say that my friend has constructed a circuit model of a Sta Level compressor and it takes a hefty pre to get it to do its thing. We tried it with my crummy little ART pre and with everything cranked on the pre, you could barely hear the signal. I guess it depends on the compressor you have in the chain.

[dfuruta]

Not a stupid point at all. I will say that my friend has constructed a circuit model of a Sta Level compressor and it takes a hefty pre to get it to do its thing. We tried it with my crummy little ART pre and with everything cranked on the pre, you could barely hear the signal. I guess it depends on the compressor you have in the chain.

Which ART pre, out of curiosity?

[goose134]

The Studio tube MP I believe. I find them quite handy and good enough for most of what I do.

[SafeandSoundMastering]

It is a bit like asking "How long is a piece of string? "

Gain requirements will depend on mic sensitivity and whether it is dynamic or condenser. And of course mic positioning and the sound pressure level of the recorded source and /or whether you feel a pad switch at source is necessary. To that end it cannot be answered without reference to all of these factors.

In any event it should be at whatever position it needs to be to produce a clean audio signal on peaks relative to 0Vu when you PFL the mic preamp/desk channel.

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[Nick Sevilla]

Turn the know until the level is high enough.

Exactly.

[dfuruta]

The Studio tube MP I believe. I find them quite handy and good enough for most of what I do.

The specs say this has >70dB gain, so it's hard to believe that would be the issue. Perhaps it's not happy driving a 600 ohm load? Wouldn't be surprising if cheap gear had problems with that.

It is a bit like asking "How long is a piece of string? "

Gain requirements will depend on mic sensitivity and whether it is dynamic or condenser. And of course mic positioning and the sound pressure level of the recorded source and /or whether you feel a pad switch at source is necessary. To that end it cannot be answered without reference to all of these factors.

In any event it should be at whatever position it needs to be to produce a clean audio signal on peaks relative to 0Vu when you PFL the mic preamp/desk channel.

Yes, obviously. Perhaps I should have been more clear before: when I'm recording, I turn the knob until it's loud enough. But, from a design and better-understanding-the-process perspective, it seems to me to be a question worth asking, as there's a compromise involved. More gain comes with the design tradeoffs of higher distortion, stability problems, etc.; so, I was curious to hear if people actually use all the gain they have, in any reasonably common situation. I don't, sounds like some other people do.

When one is recording, of course one just turns the knob. But that's not helpful at all if you're trying to learn the technical details of how these things work, and why they were designed like they were.

[accordion squeezist]

dfuruta, I'll try to state my observations here and not my opinions. Hope this helps.
I have an older Shinybox 46 and a Vinjet, same mic really, both off the shelf.
Never had to max out the Grace m101 for 'em, usually 1 or 2 clicks before max (at 5dB increments) so that's about 50-55 dB. Same deal with the bottom feeder Studio Projects VTB-1. The Sennheiser MD441 dynamic needs more gain than these ribbon mics. I'm recording acoustic instruments and vocals, not really loud amped sources, with no gain deficiency; ex.- I'll put a ribbon mic 18" from acoustic guitar and take great delight at first playback watching a client's face light up.

[emrr]

My average rock band session? 15-45 dB, even if all dynamics and ribbons. Lots of fixed gain 40 dB preamps with 20 dB pads in front = 20 dB, straight to recorder.

I hit 75 dB on room pickup ribbons with quiet acoustic sessions, that's the only thing that ever tops 70. When you get over 60, the useful noise floor becomes a huge issue, and many of the classics that people fawn over aren't really quiet enough if it's critical.

[dsw]

How long is a piece of string?

Quite a while

[SafeandSoundMastering]

When one is recording, of course one just turns the knob. But that's not helpful at all if you're trying to learn the technical details of how these things work, and why they were designed like they were.

Sure, I did not get the from original post. I would be more concerned with operating an optimized gain structure whatever preamps/mic/mixer your are using. (That could take into account level dependent character as well as the typical noise/obvious distortion considerations)

Good electronic designs should not be less stable.

If your mic preamp is fully clockwise, there could be something wrong in most recording "normal" situations, bar using something like an M201 on a quiet source or ribbon mic.

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[dfuruta]

Sure, I wasn't very clear. It's interesting to hear other people's experiences with this, though.

Good designs should be stable, of course. But, it's easier to make a 60dB gain circuit stable in all cases than an 80dB one, and it's also easier to keep distortion down with lower amounts of gain. It's certainly possible to blast out 80dB gain with low distortion, but I was just curious if people really find it necessary?apparently so in a some situations.