managing the first take wonders

[MoreSpaceEcho]

inspired by this:

good topic.
sort of on-topic....since most of my songs start out with guitar, i've noticed that almost invariably the first couple 'scratch' guitars i record end up being the best, feel-wise. even if i'm playing to a shitty drum machine. basically i feel like the first guitars i throw down sound like The Song, whereas if i try and redo them later, it sounds like i'm playing the song. if that makes any sense.

CK, sorry to OT an epic TO thread, but TBH, MSE comment is worthy of a thread in itself. IMHO.

I have the exact same experience. My best takes are always the 1st or maybe 2nd. Sadly, they more often than not also contain a flub or two, and then I have to figure out how to deal with that. Capturing a direct line in recording and reamping can help fix that, but stilll...,

I've read that some of my favorite artists suffer this syndrome (Neal Young, Westerberg, Joe Strummer).

Apparently, Neal Young will often not let his fellow musicians rehearse a new song before recording it. His goal is to get the elusive "real", or "live" feel of the musicians responding and reacting to the essence of the song when they first hear it for the 1st time, which he can then capture on tape. Rather than letting them practice and then just play their parts, as MSE alludes to above, or in my case, start to introduce to many "precious" parts.

Anyway, I would love to see a thread describing how to best manage the "first take" wonders.

so, the obvious thing is just Always Be Recording.

if i'm tracking a band (which happens about once a year now), i always try and get the mics set up as fast as possible and then make myself invisible. record their warmups/first passes at the tunes, you never know.

if it's an overdub situation, and i have a good player out in front of the mic, i almost always will say something like "i'm just gonna roll the track, play along and get comfy, make sure the headphone mix is cool, and then we'll go for one." and of course always record the 'run through'. lots of times good things happen.

for me, i pretty much make music by improvising. i'll start with a beat and/or a guitar part of some sort, and then just start piling shit on. i always record the first take of whatever instrument i'm playing...i often find that when i don't know what i'm doing and/or aren't sure what the changes are, i'll play stuff i wouldn't otherwise.

obviously this can lead to lots of tracks to sort through later, which can be tedious. i'm pretty good at editing/sorting so i don't mind this too much, but i do try to minimize it if i can. so, if after my first take or two it's clear that i'm totally sucking, i'll loop the song/part and play along (without recording), and try and work out some parts.

more later, i need to actually do some work here for a change.

[Nick Sevilla]

If you don't have it in the first 5 takes,

STOP.

Try again tomorrow.

[lefthanddoes]

This won't result in getting that first take, but I often find that knowing you're recording puts a damper on the performance. Whenever possible I try not to talk to the band about things like "ok here we go take 1" etc, acting as if recording just sort of happens magically. Lots of great moments of "oh, we were recording that?" happen this way.

Also, whenever someone is recording me, and they are getting levels/setting up and they want me to play, I always play some kind of scales or exercises instead of the song. Loosens me up for the actual take. I used to try improvising instead, but then I would usually come up with something fresh and great and never capture it.

Also, lots of people will have a problem with this, but I try to hone my mic-choice-and-placement technique so that I can predict what will be appropriate and "neutral" based on the source/song/band's sound. I'm more often than not able to get a good recording of a band without having to hear how anything sounds while I'm setting up, and then I can hit record sooner. This is especially true with rock, where the frequency ranges and roles of the rhythm section instruments have been established fairly concretely over the past 60 years.

[lefthanddoes]

Sorry, for some reason I just repeated a bunch of stuff you already said.

[Gregg Juke]

First takes can be magic, but I'm also a firm believer in pre-production, rehearsal, good arrangements, warming-up, and keeping the talent educated to the process.

So I disagree that after only 5 takes, you should pick it up the next day.

I have never been known, however, to be above the old "Let's go for one more practice run, then we'll start tracking..." ("Nudge-Nudge, Wink-Wink"). After awhile though, even the newbies catch-on to the "secret take" trick, and you have to find other ways to catch them at their most comfortable.

GJ

[Gregg Juke]

PS-- Red Light Fever can strike anybody. After years and years of doing this, it's amazing how my hands will still start to feel like they're going to drop the sticks only after we say "OK, let's go for a take," or the old "magic phlegm-ball" will materialize only after being totally warmed-up and comfortable with the headphone mix. Then, when it's time to sing, it's "excuse me... ahem, AHEM!"

GJ

[austin]

I've always loved the idea of "first take magic," but it rarely works out that way for me in actual practice. Maybe it's just me or the musicians I've worked with, but I usually find it to be more like a bell curve (if you imagine the x-axis as time and the y-axis as awesomeness): Rough at first, increasingly better as you refine your approach and get comfortable, and then a tipping point as things start to sound stiff or tired.

[vvv]

FWIW, and this probably explains a lot, but my lead vocals as linked below are probably 80% first takes, and guitar leads are probably 95%.

My reasoning is that I'm lazy, suck at it anyway, and punk as fuhk.

(Note to Mr. Juke, yep, the " " does make it better for me, how's about you? )

[mindsound]

To get this first take result, I look at a studio day like a collection of little recording events. Funnily, my best producer's move are 99% when I call for a 10 minutes break at the best moment (always by intuition). At that moment I KNOW that when we'll go back...it will happens in the first two takes.
In other words, I take a lot of breaks for that reason: It's like fishing. Nothing happen, and then you say:"let'go to the other side of the pond" and while paddling, you feel all the expectations and excitement that there, you'll catch the Big fish. So i think, that creating moments of confidence-expectations-excitement lead to THE TAKE. And these moments happens while going somewhere...not when you stuck at the same place for the last hour.

[markjazzbassist]

great topic, yeah i usually always like the 1st or second take.

miles davis wouldn't allow more than 5 takes, and he usually never rehearsed before hand either.

i love the spontaneity of music.

[A.David.MacKinnon]

I'm surprised no-one's mentioned it yet but a good trick for keeping the band fresh while you get your mics up and levels set is to have them play anything but the songs there going to be recording. Play old songs, covers, or just make up some new shit.
That way you'll be ready when they start the first take of the song you're all there to record.

[Corey Y]

Always Be Recording.

There's the meat and the potatoes. Every time someone says "can you just run it through once, so I can get a feel for it?". My response is "Sure thing", then I hit record. Having a DI track for reamping is always a nice safety net too. It's not like the first take is ALWAYS magic, but I haven't ever been sorry for having too many takes from which to choose.

[drumsound]

First take magic is super cool, but I find its more often true with experienced players. Young players need time to get acclimated to the studio environment. The "secret" record take can work well with them, but that usually only works on the first pass of the first song.

[Gregg Juke]

I'm not so sure that Miles "never rehearsed." I'm sure that with Blue Note, Capitol, and Columbia there were rehearsals. With Prestige, maybe not so much.

If you mean during the Teo Macero era, Miles often came in with half-baked ideas, and left a lot of tape for Teo to edit together, so yeah, probably not much rehearsal there either.


And of course, a simplistic translation of your comment (which I'm sure is more nuanced, but many younger peeps wouldn't get that) would be something like "no rehearsal equals better takes." But of course, that assumes excellent and experienced musicianship, which is not always going to be the case with young bands, first time in the studio.

GJ

[E-money]

I like the Steely Dan approach to first take magic, give Denny Dias a stab at the solo, if it's not working, give Steve Khan a shot, if he doesn't nail it Dean Parks is up to bat, followed by Larry Carlton, Lee Ritenour, and Jay Graydon.

Repeat as needed.