Blumlein on drums?

johnny1000 · Post by **johnny1000** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:45 am

Hey

I'm recording a drummer in a basement tonight. It's approximately a 50' by 15' space with 7' ceilings and vinyl tile on cement floor. The end of the room that we'll be using is fairly dead, and the other end is pretty live. The room doesn't sound great, but it also doesn't sound bad, exactly.

I've recorded drums in this space in the past using spaced pair OH for overall kit capture, and it's been serviceable (listening to the mixes, you wouldn't know the drums were recorded in a basement, but it was a lot of effort to get there).

I recently acquired a second Shinybox 46u making a pair of Fig 8 ribbons available so I'm thinking that maybe Blumlein or even MS in front of kit might be better. I'd put the array a few feet in front of the kit, with the height to balance drums and cymbals, so then the floor and ceiling end up in the nulls with a good 35 or 40 feet behind the back lobes to the back wall. There would be some reflection from the side walls, but their fairly damped, so not much, especially at higher frequencies.

This seems smart on paper. But like a lot of things that seem smart in theory about recording, in practice they don't always work out. I know the correct answer is "try it and see", but I have a very short amount of time before my ADD drummer will be drunk and passed out in the corner from boredom (and he's bringing the drums so setting up in advance isn't possible), and so tearing down a set up and starting over needs to be avoided. Switching from Blumlein to MS is a matter of rotating the array 45?, so that's an easy fallback.

Any thoughts? Cautions? Stories to share?

Thanks!

-John

The Scum · Post by **The Scum** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:29 am

I've done it and it works fine.

I like the image better when they're over the drummer's head. That way, the cymbals are spread out in a circle around the mics.

johnny1000 · Post by **johnny1000** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:46 am

cool, thanks.

If I do it over the kit, won't I lose the advantage of mitigating the low ceiling, though? I guess my thought it really around trying to make the ceiling sonically recede as much as possible.

Jacob Bergson · Post by **Jacob Bergson** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:47 am

It'll probably sound cool, but I doubt it would really function as a replacement for overheads. Perhaps a nice addition, if you have the channels/mics to spare.

Blumlein can also be a cool overhead configuration, but not in a room with 7ft ceilings...

The Scum · Post by **The Scum** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:50 am

I'd put the axis of the ribbons so it's vertical - nothing pointing at the ceiling. The pickup patterns would be parallel to the ceiling/floor.

mindsound · Post by **mindsound** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:48 pm

In theory as in practice, these techniques might be super cool!

But.....You need a really great sounding room. It not seem to be exactly your case as you mentioned in your post.

Secondly, as you have a very limited time, I would not suggest you to go with these techniques first. I would rather suggest you to keep it as an extra time experiment, assuming the setup and micing went really well.

Maybe the result will not be stellar on it's own, but just adding a touch of this micing at the mix may open very cool possibilities.
So, play it safe and try it if you have time (only).

johnny1000 · Post by **johnny1000** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:08 pm

Thanks guys, that all makes sense. Could be cool, maybe not.

I reckon I'll see what it sounds likes and then make a quick decision at the time.

JohnDavisNYC · Post by **JohnDavisNYC** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:47 pm

Blumlein is great in front of drums. I have done it a bunch. Lately I seem to have moved on, but that's how it goes, innit. I'll likely be back to it.

Also, if the rest of the setup is something that you know works, just print it, even it you're not super excited about it in the tracking. Sometimes stuff that feels 'meh' during tracking totally works perfectly in the mix.

john

johnny1000 · Post by **johnny1000** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:30 pm

Thanks everyone for all the feedback and advice.

I ended up going w/ the Blumlein pair and no OH. It just represented the kit so well and I was fine with the cymbals feeling slightly diffuse (this drummer can self balance, which helps). I did eventually move the under snare mic to the hi hat (and I haven't mic'd a hi hat in years) because it needed a little more focus, and a lot of the snap of the snare was coming from the FOK pair.

Corey Y · Post by **Corey Y** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:39 am

In after the mark, so to speak, but I thought I'd toss in my experience. Every time I used a Blumlein configuration it was with a very high ceiling, above the drummer's head and I liked it quite a bit. However, I think it really depends on the music and the overall vibe you're going for. In that case it was a very slow, spacey set of tunes with a lot of room sound. I tried it with a more traditional rock band with mid to uptempo songs and didn't care for it as much, so I ended up using a single omni overhead and using the ribbon mics in Blumlein configuration a few feet in front of the kit, just above the kick. That gave a nice stereo spread, without sounding too loose and spacey.

Any time I use ribbon/figure 8 patterns for any drum OH or room stuff I always listen and expect to change things up. Just because I think context is really key. I don't think I would care for it much in a low ceiling room, but I'd always trust my ears over my expectation.

Darlington Pair · Post by **Darlington Pair** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:14 pm

I used Blumlein in the room to track the Candy Bars drums http://newgranada.bandcamp.com/album/on ... arravation This is back in my old house with 10 foot ceilings and those institutional school tile floors, not a particularly big room. If I remember the session correctly, it was d112 on the kick, baby bottle 20" in front of the kick, e609 on the snare, and a borrowed stereo pair that I think were ADKs for the blumlein. I was laid up after having my hip crushed in a car accident and getting around with a walker, so that period is pretty fuzzy for me.

But I only tracked the drums and didn't mix the record so how much of which mics and whatnot were actually used I couldn't really tell you.

bobschwenkler · Post by **bobschwenkler** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:22 pm

My main point of concern is that with the amazing stereo imaging that Blumlein affords you'll want to take care in getting your snare and bass drum well centered.

drumsound · Post by **drumsound** » Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:02 am

bobschwenkler wrote:My main point of concern is that with the amazing stereo imaging that Blumlein affords you'll want to take care in getting your snare and bass drum well centered.

The solution to this is to not use the center of the BD as L/R center, but to think of a line that goes through the BD shell and SD head on the diagonal. I do that with OH and coincident room mics. It keeps the BD and SD centered as one would mix close mics.
here's a pic

bobschwenkler · Post by **bobschwenkler** » Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:02 pm

Great tip Tony.

cgarges · Post by **cgarges** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 4:44 pm

drumsound wrote:
bobschwenkler wrote:My main point of concern is that with the amazing stereo imaging that Blumlein affords you'll want to take care in getting your snare and bass drum well centered.
The solution to this is to not use the center of the BD as L/R center, but to think of a line that goes through the BD shell and SD head on the diagonal. I do that with OH and coincident room mics. It keeps the BD and SD centered as one would mix close mics.
here's a pic

I use this exact same configuration, but on the opposite side of the kit (snare drum/hi hat) frequently.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

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