Kick Mic with m160 overheads

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Rufer
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Kick Mic with m160 overheads

Post by Rufer » Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:21 am

I just ordered a second m160 and my next move is imminent.

I am looking to find a kick mic to use within a 3 mic configuration on a small drum kit with two m160s as overheads. What mic would compliment that type of sound? M88 perhaps?

Thanks for your thoughts.

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Post by cgarges » Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:13 pm

Any type of kick drum mic would work.

I love the M88 on a kick drum with either a full front head or no front head when the drum itself sounds great. These days, my go-to kick mic is the Sennheiser e602 for it's simplicity. It can take plenty of level without a crazy hot output, usually sounds great with no EQ, and takes to minimal EQ pretty well when required. Probably 85% of the time these days I've got one on the kick drum, even if I've got another mic on the drum, as well.

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Post by Brett Siler » Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:29 pm

I 2nd the E602. It sounds really good just right outside the hole on the kick drum. It usually doesn't need an addition EQ after that. I have used it a lot inside the kick right next the the beater and it sounds a lot better than my Shure Beta 52 did in that application. No sproingy basketball sound. Usually have will I will scoop a little low mids when cramming it next to beater from the proximity build up. It takes eq very well.

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Post by losthighway » Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:54 pm

Yeah, the E602 is dependably good. It's a bit hyped sounding but in a way that allows it to sit with different styles. Kind of a low bump, hi bump, mid cut curve. You can get clicky for heavy rock stuff if it's closeish to the beater, or if you want to round it out you can back it out of the drum a bit. It sounds like what my d112 sounds like after screwing around with eq for five minutes.

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Post by eh91311 » Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:39 pm

I like the e602 too, the first version. My current band has been tracking in our rehearsal room for the past few months off and on and everyone loved the Beta52 that the drummer provided.... except I hated it. It sounded boomy and indistinct. For me, it's the e602 on kick (lots of beater) or a d112 (rock thud sound). If I recall, the Beyer M88 is a really good mic for lots of duties (bass or guitar cab, vocal mic) but I remember people mentioning it can be damaged when used too close to super-loud percussive sound, like the inside of a kick drum.

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Post by RoyMatthews » Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:08 pm

Edit: NVM
I realize I made a bullshit low content post. Sorry all.
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Post by ott0bot » Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:14 pm

Garges' suggestions are great. I love the m88 on kick(and everything).

I'd also recommend and re20 or if you want more room sound a decent non-bright LCD like a Kel hm2d, AT4050, or anything in the vein of a u47.

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Post by sir hills » Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:59 am

+1 on the M88 - I like it quite well outside a full front head. Big RE20 fan too, I like it in most positions but prefer it inside & also like it paired with an outer LDC (4033, 103, 414, 4060 are things I've personally used with success). The 421 is another single kick mic I like.
Last edited by sir hills on Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Rufer » Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:30 pm

Thanks for all of your replies. I liked the idea of the M88 because of its ability to excel in multiple applications (I don't have many good mics). But even if the E602 is a specialty mic, at its price and the praise it is getting here, it might be the ticket.
Last edited by Rufer on Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by cgarges » Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:21 pm

ott0bot wrote:Garges' suggestions are great. I love the m88 on kick(and everything).
Thanks!

Just a note on the M88:

The M88 can generally handle loud sources like a kick drum. The volume or SPL is not what can damage them to the extent that is often mentioned. What IS problematic is that the backside of the capsule is susceptible to damage via wind blasts. If you put the M88 right inside the hole in a kick drum, it's not the blast of air coming out of it or the associated volume that can do damage-- it's the gush of air that gets immediately sucked back into the port that can mess them up. I've used an M88 in the hole in a kick drum a couple of times (before I knew better) and my mic survived. But what killed my first M88 was a metal "Cookie Monster"-type singer who cupped the mic and got air blasts into the backside of the capsule that way. The guy didn't know any better and I didn't think about that being an issue, so no harm, no foul, but I certainly learned what those mics can and can't handle under those circumstances.

They're still a terrific mic for most things. I have three of them that get used frequently.

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Post by sir hills » Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:25 am

Dang, thanks for the heads up on the potential M88 damage, Chris! I had no idea, I think mine's been fine just inside the port (been doing it for years) but I guess I'll reserve that for something else.

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Post by cgarges » Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:34 am

sir hills wrote:Dang, thanks for the heads up on the potential M88 damage, Chris! I had no idea, I think mine's been fine just inside the port (been doing it for years) but I guess I'll reserve that for something else.
I think it may be one of those things that people freak out about a little more than they should (like the ribbon mic vs. phantom power thing), but apparently, it's still a real possibility. It's cool to know that someone has been doing the "M88 in the port" thing for a long time without blowing up their mic. Like I said, I did it a few times without blowing anything up and it sounded great, but not long after that, it went in the hands of a singer who was cupping it.

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Post by Rufer » Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:51 am

The M88 TG User Manual says:

* For miking a bass drum use the PS 88 popscreen.

http://north-america.beyerdynamic.com/s ... 88-tg.html

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Post by AndersonSoundRecording » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:37 pm

Ha! That's the first time I've seen Beyer suggest a windscreen for that. I remember lots of engineers saying over the years that you should not use the same M88 for vocals that you've used on a kick drum.

Was turned on to the M88 as a live vocal mic some years back. It's OK, but not my favorite in that role. Works well on leslie low, djembe/dumbek/cajon "in-the-hole-type" stuff; anything where you want some real solid low end.

Mostly use it on jazz kick drums and/or kick drums with resonator heads that don't have a hole in the front. I've found that placing it at a little bit of a distance works well in that latter application. The tight pickup pattern lets you have a bit of breathing room for the kick to bloom that other mic's might not.

For in-the-hole rock-type stuff, I've generally preferred something else - D112 or 421 always work OK for me with some EQ tweakage. M88's not bad, and I've seen other people use it successfully in this role, but not usually my cup of tea.

I love M160's for overheads. Steve Remote turned me on to that a few years back. Picked up a pair and haven't looked back.
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Post by Recording Engineer » Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:06 pm

My general quick gotos that I know will probably work on kick:
-Beta 52 to API for modern rock.
-Add a Bova Ball on the batter-side to SE-Pre1 for more metal.
-Add a Bova Ball 1ft. off the ground, a good 10ft. or more in front of the kit to any good preamp for more indie.
-M88N(C) to any good preamp for vintage rock or R&B.
-ATM-25 to any good preamp for jazz or anything I want a more neutral-tone.

I know a lot of people use them, but for whatever reason, I can never get an RE-20 to sound good on kick. Haven't tried a D112 in at least 10-years, it was so terrible. And for whatever reason, I've still never tried a 421 on kick. Have a feeling I'd like it for jazz. Still never tried a D6. Still never tried an e602, but based on the comments here, going to have to.

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