Soundcraft 200B master section mod

[supafuzz]

Soundcraft 200B master section mod
Has anyone built a discrete transformer balanced master section for the 200B?

I just got one, 16 channels with the deluxe eq and want this to hang with the big boys.

I don't care about the preamps as I have lot of world class vintage and boutique outboard pre's that I love.. including Neve Telefunken [tube] Altec [tube] API Helios. So I won't be using the 200B pre's. But I want to turn this into a great summing monster..

Also I eventually want to change all the channels to all discrete opamps.

I have an Acopian power supply already to replace and upgrade the little one that comes with it.

thanks

[ott0bot]

...paging Jim Williams...

[supafuzz]

...paging Jim Williams...

Maybe we can get him to weigh in

[Nick Sevilla]

Soundcraft 200B master section mod
Has anyone built a discrete transformer balanced master section for the 200B?

I just got one, 16 channels with the deluxe eq and want this to hang with the big boys.

I don't care about the preamps as I have lot of world class vintage and boutique outboard pre's that I love.. including Neve Telefunken [tube] Altec [tube] API Helios. So I won't be using the 200B pre's. But I want to turn this into a great summing monster..

Also I eventually want to change all the channels to all discrete opamps.

I have an Acopian power supply already to replace and upgrade the little one that comes with it.

thanks

LOL.

You do realize that anything you plug into an input in this console, will use their preamplifier?

It just won't be as loud as using the "mic" side.

Cheers

[supafuzz]

LOL.

You do realize that anything you plug into an input in this console, will use their preamplifier?

It just won't be as loud as using the "mic" side.

Cheers[/quote]

No I didn't realize that and I guess we will eventually bypass them when we install the custom channel strips...

[The Scum]

So I can get started, a link to the manual:

http://www.soundcraft.com/downloads/fet ... des&id=652

You do realize that anything you plug into an input in this console, will use their preamplifier?

Yup. The line input is padded by 10 db, then fed to the mic preamp input (the pad is hidden on page 50 of the manual).

Or plug unbalanced into the insert returns.

...paging Jim Williams...

Is he really the guy indicated in this case? If the goal is a somewhat colored, transformer coupled, class-A, discrete desk, then asking for the high-bandwidth, low distortion guy might not be a suitable perscription.

Not that Jim doesn't turn the newer Delta 200 into a real (squeaky clean) powerhouse.

Has anyone built a discrete transformer balanced master section for the 200B?

Every time I start floating the idea of a heavily customized mixer along these lines, I start making a costed BOM for the project for the parts that I can anticipate needing. About the point that the BOM hits $20k, I start to lose interest. An old MCI 400 might be a better starting point, for a lot less money.

Not that the 200b tweaks couldn't be done. In my mind, it would be easier in many cases to make new PCBs that do exactly what you're trying to do, rather than retrofit the existing ones.

I'd also carefully consider the discrete opamp topologies used. There are many places where a fairly simple opamp (like 3 transistors and a few resistors) could be employed, because it doesn't need any appreciable output drive current. Places that need more current could be built with a suitable current driver stage on the output. This saves current and heat when they don't need to be spent. Paul Wolff doesn't something like this in his Tonelux line.

You can always drop some 600:600 transformers in there, just added inline with the mix output.

The 200b was also the desk that the bus bar grounding mod was invented for, isn't it?

[supafuzz]

So I can get started, a link to the manual:

http://www.soundcraft.com/downloads/fet ... des&id=652

You do realize that anything you plug into an input in this console, will use their preamplifier?

Yup. The line input is padded by 10 db, then fed to the mic preamp input (the pad is hidden on page 50 of the manual).

Or plug unbalanced into the insert returns.

...paging Jim Williams...

Is he really the guy indicated in this case? If the goal is a somewhat colored, transformer coupled, class-A, discrete desk, then asking for the high-bandwidth, low distortion guy might not be a suitable perscription.

Not that Jim doesn't turn the newer Delta 200 into a real (squeaky clean) powerhouse.

Has anyone built a discrete transformer balanced master section for the 200B?

Every time I start floating the idea of a heavily customized mixer along these lines, I start making a costed BOM for the project for the parts that I can anticipate needing. About the point that the BOM hits $20k, I start to lose interest. An old MCI 400 might be a better starting point, for a lot less money.

Not that the 200b tweaks couldn't be done. In my mind, it would be easier in many cases to make new PCBs that do exactly what you're trying to do, rather than retrofit the existing ones.

I'd also carefully consider the discrete opamp topologies used. There are many places where a fairly simple opamp (like 3 transistors and a few resistors) could be employed, because it doesn't need any appreciable output drive current. Places that need more current could be built with a suitable current driver stage on the output. This saves current and heat when they don't need to be spent. Paul Wolff doesn't something like this in his Tonelux line.

You can always drop some 600:600 transformers in there, just added inline with the mix output.

The 200b was also the desk that the bus bar grounding mod was invented for, isn't it?

yes all good info..we will just upgrade the existing channels until we can build new ones with new pcbs.

Maybe I'm delusional about making this a monster..but for right now it'll work for me until I can upgrade to an MCI..or something else

yes I have a pair of MCI 600-600 transformers already for the output of the master.

This will take a while and will be done in stages we will listen to find out what works for us...

I agree about Jim Williams not being the right guy for this....I don't want clean and transparent

[Nick Sevilla]

No I didn't realize that and I guess we will eventually bypass them when we install the custom channel strips...

So, really, you should just use the frame, and build a completely new console.

Or, just go buy something else that is a lot closer sounding to what you hear in your head.

Like this:

http://www.treeaudio.com/

Cheers

[supafuzz]

No I didn't realize that and I guess we will eventually bypass them when we install the custom channel strips...

So, really, you should just use the frame, and build a completely new console.

Or, just go buy something else that is a lot closer sounding to what you hear in your head.

Cheers

yeah using the frame to build a new console is my endgame

[Nick Sevilla]

No I didn't realize that and I guess we will eventually bypass them when we install the custom channel strips...

So, really, you should just use the frame, and build a completely new console.

Or, just go buy something else that is a lot closer sounding to what you hear in your head.

Cheers

yeah using the frame to build a new console is my endgame

Like this:

http://www.treeaudio.com/

Cheers

[supafuzz]

what's that about 10-12 thousand? or more?

[Nick Sevilla]

what's that about 10-12 thousand? or more?

I dunno, but it won't be more than what you'd spend "finding" that sound in a custom job, I'll tell you that much.

Just get in touch with them for a quote.

Cheers

[supafuzz]

what's that about 10-12 thousand? or more?

I dunno, but it won't be more than what you'd spend "finding" that sound in a custom job, I'll tell you that much.

Just get in touch with them for a quote.

Cheers

hmm that remains to be seen,,,,,I've always found ways to save $$$ and get amazing sounds..I know I wont spend that much

[supafuzz]

$22,500 for the ROOTS

[Nick Sevilla]

$22,500 for the ROOTS

Worth it.