I need ideas on how to setup a PA that will primarily carry vocals for band practices. it needs to keep up with loud drums and guitars even when the singer isn't belting.
I have always had a terrible time hearing my voice in any circumstance that isn't just acoustic guitars. I need to be able and hear what i'm singing to adjust and not push too hard. Would it be easiest to just get molded in-ear monitors?
Optimal PA setup for basement practice space
One thing I discovered, completely by accident:
in a low ceiling basement, putting your monitors up on stands works much better than having them on the floor (by stands I mean those PA type-stands, or "monitor stands" like On Stage sells)
when monitors are on the floor, I think some of the sound just bounces off the ceiling, right into your mic.
In contrast, when on stands, the monitors are parallel with the ceiling surface, and can be set essentially at ear level. If you position the null of the mic properly, you can get a much clearer, no feedback setup.
Just a suggestion.
PS I say "discovered by accident" because I was actually just moving the monitors around to get more floor space/minimize tripping. Thus, the above rational is really just ex post facto, as was the use of that phrase in this pompous post posting post.
PSS - you'll probably still have to have a separate monitor for the drummer, again, I'd sit it on something pointing at his/her head, rather than on the floor.
in a low ceiling basement, putting your monitors up on stands works much better than having them on the floor (by stands I mean those PA type-stands, or "monitor stands" like On Stage sells)
when monitors are on the floor, I think some of the sound just bounces off the ceiling, right into your mic.
In contrast, when on stands, the monitors are parallel with the ceiling surface, and can be set essentially at ear level. If you position the null of the mic properly, you can get a much clearer, no feedback setup.
Just a suggestion.
PS I say "discovered by accident" because I was actually just moving the monitors around to get more floor space/minimize tripping. Thus, the above rational is really just ex post facto, as was the use of that phrase in this pompous post posting post.
PSS - you'll probably still have to have a separate monitor for the drummer, again, I'd sit it on something pointing at his/her head, rather than on the floor.
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GooberNumber9
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You're not very specific about the relative levels you are talking about, so if you want to be able to sing like a folk rocker while the guitars and drums are playing metal, it's going to be very difficult. I've mixed bands with that kind of sound before and I'm not sure how they expect to make it work when the vocal mic picks up at least a little bit of everything.
Either way, here are some ideas:
1) Have everyone face each other. This keeps the vocal mics pointed away from the other instruments more than in a typical stage setup.
2) Notwithstanding the above post, you can make 2 -4 wedges on the floor in the middle of the room facing outwards work really well.
3) Use the best quality gear you can afford: good mics, good mixer, good power amp, good wedges (or good powered monitors). Learn how to set the gain in the mixer and power amp properly.
4) If you can get some foam or something to dampen/diffuse reflections from walls and ceilings, that is a big help for all the instruments (reducing cymbal wash and distorted guitar flutter echo is really nice on the ears). If the floor is hard cement or tile, get some cheap rugs from Target and put them under the guitar amps and vocal wedges and mic stands. If you can "carpet" the floor with rugs, do it.
5) Controversial, maybe: I use an automatic feedback eliminator from dbx at my practice space. Set up everything exactly how you want it, kick everyone out for a few minutes, put in earplugs and crank the gain slowly as it kills feedback. Roll back the gain a bit and play. Or get a 30-band graphic EQ and learn how to ring out the hard way.
6) If it's a basement used for other things, when singing, try to have your back to a wall lined with bookshelves or an open closet door with lots of clothes inside or some heavy drapes or something like that. If you can avoid your back facing a hard, flat, sound-reflecting wall or window that will keep the mic signal cleaner.
I finally clicked on the Universal Constant link, so if that's the space you will be in you have more than half the battle won. The first thing I would try in that space, if my finances allowed, is each band member in a rough circle facing inwards with a wedge in the middle facing them - one wedge per person if possible. The space might be a little tight, since if you really want to hear best it helps to be dead on-axis with the tweeter and most wedge angles mean you have to be 4 - 5 feet back or so (depending on your height). You probably know how to do gain, levels, and EQ so if you're not already planning this, use a mic for live purposes like an SM58. Even off-axis rejection is important because it's all the off-axis stuff that contributes to noise and feedback in the mic. If you're buying a power amp, don't feel like it's a waste to get 3000+ watts. Headroom is nice to have.
I can't tell from the picture if the ceiling is treated or what kind of ceiling it is. If you can't treat it and it's hard then pole-mounting speakers can help keeping it from bouncing off the ceiling too much. If it is treated or you can treat it, then wedges help maintain sight lines and are more like a live setup.
If you're pressed for space, put the drums and amps at one end and then have singers face that end with wedges pointing both ways. This means the backs of the mics are facing the drums and amps.
Either way, here are some ideas:
1) Have everyone face each other. This keeps the vocal mics pointed away from the other instruments more than in a typical stage setup.
2) Notwithstanding the above post, you can make 2 -4 wedges on the floor in the middle of the room facing outwards work really well.
3) Use the best quality gear you can afford: good mics, good mixer, good power amp, good wedges (or good powered monitors). Learn how to set the gain in the mixer and power amp properly.
4) If you can get some foam or something to dampen/diffuse reflections from walls and ceilings, that is a big help for all the instruments (reducing cymbal wash and distorted guitar flutter echo is really nice on the ears). If the floor is hard cement or tile, get some cheap rugs from Target and put them under the guitar amps and vocal wedges and mic stands. If you can "carpet" the floor with rugs, do it.
5) Controversial, maybe: I use an automatic feedback eliminator from dbx at my practice space. Set up everything exactly how you want it, kick everyone out for a few minutes, put in earplugs and crank the gain slowly as it kills feedback. Roll back the gain a bit and play. Or get a 30-band graphic EQ and learn how to ring out the hard way.
6) If it's a basement used for other things, when singing, try to have your back to a wall lined with bookshelves or an open closet door with lots of clothes inside or some heavy drapes or something like that. If you can avoid your back facing a hard, flat, sound-reflecting wall or window that will keep the mic signal cleaner.
I finally clicked on the Universal Constant link, so if that's the space you will be in you have more than half the battle won. The first thing I would try in that space, if my finances allowed, is each band member in a rough circle facing inwards with a wedge in the middle facing them - one wedge per person if possible. The space might be a little tight, since if you really want to hear best it helps to be dead on-axis with the tweeter and most wedge angles mean you have to be 4 - 5 feet back or so (depending on your height). You probably know how to do gain, levels, and EQ so if you're not already planning this, use a mic for live purposes like an SM58. Even off-axis rejection is important because it's all the off-axis stuff that contributes to noise and feedback in the mic. If you're buying a power amp, don't feel like it's a waste to get 3000+ watts. Headroom is nice to have.
I can't tell from the picture if the ceiling is treated or what kind of ceiling it is. If you can't treat it and it's hard then pole-mounting speakers can help keeping it from bouncing off the ceiling too much. If it is treated or you can treat it, then wedges help maintain sight lines and are more like a live setup.
If you're pressed for space, put the drums and amps at one end and then have singers face that end with wedges pointing both ways. This means the backs of the mics are facing the drums and amps.
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Hi,
I play in a very loud band that practices in my basement studio and was in a similar situation as you...
I purchased a powered wedge monitor from the local GC and it made a WORLD of difference in hearing myself clearly. It is the GC brand "Harbinger" with a 15" and horn with a 100w internal amp with EQ. It's not exactly the highest of quality with its plastic case and it is made in China, but for the $150 it cost all I can say is yes. It is a great compliment to my old school passive PA and sits right in front of me on the floor. In fact, it fills the whole room with sound and its a pretty large room.
To help the overall sound / tone and volume, I also run my mic through my compressor. I think this is important for loud vocals in a closed space and seems to help cut down on feedback.
One last thing I think also helps the vocal chain is a good mic. Personally, I use a Sennheiser - you can get an 835 for about $99 they are clear, loud and well made in Germany.
Hope this helps and good luck.
-Snake
I play in a very loud band that practices in my basement studio and was in a similar situation as you...
I purchased a powered wedge monitor from the local GC and it made a WORLD of difference in hearing myself clearly. It is the GC brand "Harbinger" with a 15" and horn with a 100w internal amp with EQ. It's not exactly the highest of quality with its plastic case and it is made in China, but for the $150 it cost all I can say is yes. It is a great compliment to my old school passive PA and sits right in front of me on the floor. In fact, it fills the whole room with sound and its a pretty large room.
To help the overall sound / tone and volume, I also run my mic through my compressor. I think this is important for loud vocals in a closed space and seems to help cut down on feedback.
One last thing I think also helps the vocal chain is a good mic. Personally, I use a Sennheiser - you can get an 835 for about $99 they are clear, loud and well made in Germany.
Hope this helps and good luck.
-Snake
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