Amek M3000 vs Sony MXP 3036

Temperamental Recordings · Post by **Temperamental Recordings** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:28 pm

Hey everyone,
So I'm looking into buying a new (to me) console for my place. I have access to two that I would love opinions on. An Amek M3000 and a Sony MXP 3036. Opinions? Thanks,
Mike

E.Bennett · Post by **E.Bennett** » Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:28 am

Whichever one is in the best shape. They are both very usable consoles, provided they have been recapped and maintained. Run test tone through every channel and turn every knob and push every switch. Take notes on what needs to be addressed. This will give you an idea of how much money you should pay in current condition. Take cabling into consideration.

Ignoring routing and function and just focusing on sound, I would probably pick the Amek.

Sean Sullivan · Post by **Sean Sullivan** » Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:00 am

I really like the MPX sonically.

I actually know of one for sale in Nashville that's been completely recapped and come with a lot of spare channels and modules if you're interested

gregnrom · Post by **gregnrom** » Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:14 pm

MXP all the way. You can trick it out as needed forever on...

Jim Williams · Post by **Jim Williams** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:38 am

The 'best' console is the one you can keep working.

Got spares?

Got support?

Got tech?

AMEK service is third party now. Sony has none. No parts, no spares.

Sony used 'hybrid' mic preamps, line drivers and summing amps. Those are potted with el caps inside. They will all eventually fail. There are no spares.

Buyer beware.

norton · Post by **norton** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:41 am

All the help and parts etc you could need for the AMEK at audio maintenance limited!
Really good folks.

I've got an AMEK BC2, and I track through it on a regular basis. Clean, honest and very capable of punch.

Recording Engineer · Post by **Recording Engineer** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:41 pm

We have a Sony MXP-3036 temporarily at the studio; until the legal battle over the SSL 6000 has run its course. Everyone that comes through raves on how they love the sound of the console.... Except... They're strictly talking about the mixer-part of the console. We never use the EQs (most in-the-box EQs sound better than those IMHO) and we don't even have the mic preamps connected. They're not horrible, but nothing special either... It's just we won't ever use them with 48-Channels of outboard pres. But the mixer-section? Great sound and routing!

Only experiences with AMEK I've had is when Hyde Street had the APC1000. Now a guy in Glendora, CA has it. There's a a studio in town now with a Rembrandt that I've been meaning to checkout!

ott0bot · Post by **ott0bot** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:48 pm

norton wrote:All the help and parts etc you could need for the AMEK at audio maintenance limited!
Really good folks.

I've got an AMEK BC2, and I track through it on a regular basis. Clean, honest and very capable of punch.

I've been in the look at for a bc2 or a Calrec mk2 mini-mixer for a while now. those consoles sound great...and I love the dsub connections. super easy routing to the patch bay.

cgarges · Post by **cgarges** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:32 am

I prefer the sound of the Amek consoles in line with the Angela lineage (2500, etc.) to the Sony 3000, but the 3000 is a very good console. I don't think there's anything at all wrong with any of those EQs that I've used (and there are a few third-party replacements for those consoles from companies like API and Avalon--not sure how hard they are to find now). There are a lot of those consoles on the planet, so I don't think the world is gonna completely run out of parts on those any time soon, but that obsolete stuff was a consideration in my console-buying project five years ago. The other things that made me choose an Angela were the more standard patchbay layout (easier to integrate additional bays than that sideways Sony patching) and the fact that there are a bunch of 3000s in the southeast and not a ton of Ameks. Plus, I just like the sound of the Amek.

AML has been really great to deal with for parts for my Amek Angela. But yes, current condition is MAJOR consideration. I wound up spending SO MUCH MORE money getting our console to NC and doing a pile of minor upfits and installation than I ever expected to, even though the console we bought was in superb shape. Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't buy a used console without having AT LEAST a third of the cost of the console set aside for that kind of endeavor or was totally prepared to live with that kind of credit card debt.

Here's what we went through with ours:
http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=54906

I'd totally do it again, though. I'd just take a little more care with some things, now that I know what the final number was on it.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

drumsound · Post by **drumsound** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:32 am

RE: 3rd party pres and EQs I believe that API will still do 3000 modules but they must be bought in quantities of 8. Avalon no longer produces 3000 modules. Our own Greg Norman is making mic pres for the Sony 3000 series (that David Barbie review in a recent issue of the magazine). Greg is quite a smart guy with really good ears, I'm fairly certain his pre sounds really good.

ghaines · Post by **ghaines** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:38 am

Jim Williams wrote: Sony used 'hybrid' mic preamps, line drivers and summing amps. Those are potted with el caps inside. They will all eventually fail. There are no spares.

Buyer beware.

Let's tell the whole story about this. First, it's true that there are potted parts in the transformer less Sony Mic Pres, but the schematic for those has been available for Sony owners, if you want to re-make / rebuild them.

Second, many MXP owners purchase preamps from API, John Hardy, Geg Norman, Avalon, etc.. or use outboard preamps. Again, the Sony preamps are fine, but so many outboard options (or replacement Preamps for the MXP) are so much better than the Sony's don't get used much.

With respect to the EQs, there were 5 models ranging from Not-very-good, to fair, to Fine, to cool, to wow. You have to get the wow ones (The ones with the big transformers) but the variable Q ones are decent.

It's true that parts are scarce, but Sony used audio-grade caps throughout, gold connectors, and expensive wiring. You don't have to recap these like an old Neve.

The connectors are a pain in the ass-tuchel design that I find expensive and annoying.

Some people have power supply issues, but I know one big-name user who never had a power supply issue since his purchase in 1991. So, ymmv.

I don't know about the Amek. Jim is right that the best console is the one that works, but I think any vintage console will give you tech things. The Amek is from 1979. I don't know... I like the Sony for the support group - you can find people that worked in the FL plants - who built them. That's where my money would go.

Jim Williams · Post by **Jim Williams** » Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:27 am

The Sony mic preamps are the least worry one would have, most use outboards. You can strip down those preamp cards and add another PCB on top too, I've done it.

The sum amps and balanced output hybrids are the main problem, those are critical. I've not seen schematics for the sum amp hybrids. Sure, those can be reverse engineered and made, but who wants to pay? I've done small quantities with 'surfboards' but that's a PITA. The sonics sure improved.

Other issues I've found are really thin 12 mm traces on the audio paths, I prefer thicker copper. I don't like audio gear laid out like a PC.

As for the caps, there are plenty of them. Sony was anal about sticking a bipolar electrolytic capacitor on every opamp input and output. These are slow and sluggish sounding and add a lot of phase shift throughout the system.

I have a switch Q four band sweep EQ in, probably one of the "not-very-good" varieties. It's not very complicated, sort of like an AMEK console EQ with the Q switches. It's only got 9 chips but a whopping 27 bipolar electrolytic capacitors in the signal path! The EQ filter caps are common mylar film. These designs also are overkill about PSU decoupling. Each opamp has a 47 or 100 ohm series resistor followed by a small el cap. It's not very hard to figure out why these don't have a good sonic rep.

Now it has decent polypropylene film caps in the EQ, all 27 of the bipolar electrolytic caps have been removed and replaced with zero-ohm wire jumpers. It's now a direct coupled EQ with the low end down to DC removing all the phase shift. The 100 and 47 ohm power supply series resistors were also removed except for the pair used for the entire card. Large, low impedance bypass caps were added. That removed the current starving this entire console suffers from. The 5532 and TL071 opamps are now National LME series. There is less than 2 mv DC offset anywhere on the EQ card.

It now sounds like after your ears pop landing in a jet.

Sean Sullivan · Post by **Sean Sullivan** » Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:12 pm

That's my EQ Jim!

We also have a dozen of the variable Q equalizers, but I sent the "stock" unit as that's what's in every channel now. But, there design looks very similar...a bunch of TL072's and 5532's and a couple dozen capacitors.

We pretty much got this console as a straight trade for a Soundcraft Ghost...it's a long story...and it's certainly an improvement over that! It's more impressive when the clients walk in...

I'm excited to hear what Jim could do. I actually like the wide Q in those modules, but there's not a lot happening below 40 Hz or in the extreme highs. I'm not sure if that's a function of the EQ's or the mix buss.

When I have a little more "funny money" I'll send off a master module. It uses those hybrids though. Maybe someone on the Sony MXP user group has the schematics for those?

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Amek M3000 vs Sony MXP 3036

Amek M3000 vs Sony MXP 3036

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