Replacement Capsule For Studio Projects C3

[Suntower]

I keep seeing adverts for replacement capsules from places like microphone-parts.com

I've got a number of old, cheap-o Studio Projects and Oktava and so on condensers.

I'm wondering if spending $150 (or whatever) on one of these -really- gets one on the road towards U67 or C12 land?

Frankly, I never disliked the sound of the Studio Projects mic. It does sound a -little- 'metallic' in the high end, though.

Long story, short... any reviews on these?

TIA,

---JC

[Marc Alan Goodman]

Well, here's my experience. I haven't spent a lot of time swapping capsules in cheaper microphones, but I did built five U87 clones recently and put a different capsule in 4 of them to compare.

I got a no-name Chinese K87 style capsule, the one from microphone-parts.com, a Peluso, and a brand new Neumann. Out of the three non-neumann ones the microhphone-parts.com one had the closest balance. However the big difference between the Nuemann and the others wasn't the balance, it was dynamic. All three of the other capsules had spots where things would get really harsh, exactly the sound you'd imagine from a low-end microphone, and really none of them where any better than the others. The Neumann however sounded like a classic mic: smooth all the way from top to bottom, no matter how hard or soft it was getting hit. We did a mix of blind and standard tests, as well as swapped mic pres and converter channels around just in case something else in the chain was being fishy.

The bummer is that the Nuemann capsule is more like $800 while the others clocked in at a fraction of that. Apparently there's a reason. The Neumann caps are still made in a clean room. Since the distance between the diaphram and the backplate is less than the width of a speck of dust even a single one introduced when the capsule is assembled can radically change the response of the capsule. It's my guess that Neumann's attention to detail is the difference, as the parts themselves are easy enough to duplicated, but I won't claim to be a capsule specialist of any sort. No matter what the cause the difference was clear.

From that experience my guess is that buying another cheaper capsule may change the sound of the mic, but it will never make it sound like a great microphone. You'd be better off putting the money away to buy a Neumann at some point.


EDIT: I forgot to mention that installing a capsule properly is a way more difficult thing that most modders would like you to believe. It's easy enough to just pull a capsule out and solder another one in its place. However the impedance in a condenser mic before the signal reaches the amplifier stage (either FET or tube) is EXTREMELY high. What this means is that even the smallest amount of oil from your skin, or a hair, or anything else near the line can cause a short that will significantly change the frequency response of the capsule. In some mics the impedance is so high you can't even mount the capsule on rubber, it's too conductive. Oliver over at AMI recently rejected a batch of plexiglass for the bottom of the microphone heads on his Lucas CS-4 mics because they were cut instead of pressed. Apparently when they're cut small bits of metal can get into the plexi and cause it to be just barely conductive. It's a seriously delicate situation in there. Mind you in a cheaper mic it's possible nobody paid attention to that in the first place, and by being careful you could do a better job than the manufacturer. However before I replace the capsule I'd do a real serious job cleaning along the line from the capsule to the amp stage with some anhydrous alcohol mixed with a little pure acetone. That alone may improve the sound of the mic significantly, or at least lower the noise floor.

[emrr]

Thanks Marc, nice to hear real world experience.

[ott0bot]

what about using a capsule from Michael Joly...his capsules are supposed ton emulate an old Neumann capsule. the circuit upgrades can change a lot too. he mod studio projects mics now: http://www.oktavamodshop.com/product_in ... cts_id=210

what about a gefell m7 capsule instead of a Neumann? probably would be a bit
cheaper.

[Suntower]

Thanks for the info. I was already wary of the idea of DIYing a replacement capsule... and your comments do resonate. I've done my share of soldering, but I was wondering just how 'DIY' such a thing would be.

I've been trying to find -the- right mic for years.

I guess my feelings are like those of guitar pickups... VERY tough for me to pay for these because I can't try before I buy. Almost better to buy the right guitar than futz around.

But since I'm poor, I keep looking to violate the basic laws of 'you get what you pay for'. Plus there's the thing that when I -have- dropped big money for a mic that -should- be 'fantastic',. it sounded fantastic for everyone, but -my- voice.

Ironically, here in Seattle, I haven't yet found a way to 'demo' a range of mics so it's been really tough to find my Prince Charming.

Sorry for the bonus rant. Appreciate the review.

---JC

PS: I dug yer web site. I dunno if this is appreciated feedback, but I had some issues with the player---I only mention it because I'd wanna know. Also some of the tracks sounded fantastic. Cheers

[Marc Alan Goodman]

PS: I dug yer web site. I dunno if this is appreciated feedback, but I had some issues with the player---I only mention it because I'd wanna know. Also some of the tracks sounded fantastic. Cheers

Thanks! yeah, we've kinda let the site go to shit while working on our new one. It should be up in a month or so. But thanks for the heads up!

[Jim Williams]

I have all the capsule variations from Microphone Parts. Most are very usable, some very good.

The 67/87 varieties are not flat response. Those need tuning to sound correct. Never evaluate one of those capsule types without having the head amp compensate for the rising hf response.

Once corrected, that 87 dual backplate capsule is excellent. In order to hear the truth from any of these you need to optimize the head amp or you will hear that instead.

[Suntower]

Thanks. Since I don't have the dosh to experiment too much, I'll have to pass though. If 10 people had all said, HELL YEAH! I'd be more inclined to give it a shot.

I guess I wonder who their market is. I mean, there are ---so--- many mics at -all- price points these days. What is the incentive to do a replacement capsule for $800 vs. say $800-$1,000 for any number of Chinese or FET models?

Thoughts?

---JC

I have all the capsule variations from Microphone Parts. Most are very usable, some very good.

The 67/87 varieties are not flat response. Those need tuning to sound correct. Never evaluate one of those capsule types without having the head amp compensate for the rising hf response.

Once corrected, that 87 dual backplate capsule is excellent. In order to hear the truth from any of these you need to optimize the head amp or you will hear that instead.

[Jim Williams]

I have a decent mic collection here. The usual EU stuff and a bunch of home-brew mics. All have been rebuilt/modified/redesigned. That includes my EU mics as well. I used to do mic mods, my 414 mods are pretty well known.

I also have 15 MCA SP-1's I bought years ago for $39 each. All have been gutted with new circuits and capsules. Only the casing was kept. I have k-47, k-67, k-7, k-1, k-87, ck-12 capsules here. I also have a rebuilt Apex 460 tube with a ck-12 and a 6072 tube in it.

I have no qualms about using any of those $39 mics in place or with my EU expensive mics, all work excellent and all compliment each other. Knowing I saved well over $10,000 in assembling them myself adds to the pleasure.

[Recording Engineer]

I've been wondering that same sort of thing for a while now too. I have a 797 Audio CR998 that has a great design and mostly great parts, but I know the capsule isn't the best. I absolutely love it on bass cabinets and uprights; but that's it; nothing else! I've wondered what capsule I should have put in it.

Also, I have a friend who used the Rode NT1000 housing and capsule, and designed all new electronics for it. I have a pair of his that are working great (my favorite combo is paired with Sage Electronics SE-Pre1 preamps), but the one he kept, the capsule eventually died. I've always wondered what it should be replaced with and would be fun to compare with the ones I have.

And optimizing the head amp as Jim Williams said simply makes sense to me; as I know implementation, in general, is key in electronics.

By the way, capsules that don't really get talked about around here are the BeezNeez... I've heard over the top things about them on occasion, so I'm really curious.

[mike fellows]

I just put a Microphone-Parts RK-47 in a Groove Tubes GT66 that I've had for 10yrs but wasn't using anymore.
It's made a huge improvement.
I have no clue how to do the head amp adjustment you guys are suggesting, but the mic is much better sounding from doing what I could.

[A.David.MacKinnon]

I've got a number of old, cheap-o Studio Projects and Oktava and so on condensers.

Which Oktava mics have you got? If it's the 219 you can make it sound a million times better by modding the headbasket and putting some foam inside the housing to cut the resonance from the body.

I have access to much nicer and more expensive mics but still use my 219s all the time. They're pretty great once you sort out a few of the issues.

[Sean Sullivan]

I used to do mic mods, my 414 mods are pretty well known.

I hate the "used to" part of this sentence...I'd love to get my AKG 460's modified

The C1 uses the same Schoeps circuit as the MCA SP-1...the C3 is probably very similar.

The C3 uses a K67 type capsule, but the Schoeps circuit, from everything I've read, is more suited for a K47 capsule:

http://microphone-parts.com/rk47-microphone-capsule/

[Recording Engineer]

Interesting since my 1st Gen. C3 doesn't have the rise in cardioid like the 1st Gen. C1 when I compared them years ago when Alan Hyatt sent me them to try out. I kept the C3 due to the flat/flatter response. I've always wondered if it is the same way with the 2nd Gens. since the response charts on the website show them pretty similar (with a broader rise in the C3); so it's making sense what you're saying.

[mrc]

Put a rk47 in my C1 1st gen., it made me smile.