I Too Want An Monstrous Kick Drum... And Hat

[MoreSpaceEcho]

*weeps*

[Suntower]

And what a sport it is.

i'm just arguing for sport here btw...

I think I'm pretty much in the whine cellar here so I'll sign off for now. About once a year I try to work on 'the room'. New drum heads. More 703 (Clouds of 703! Triangles of 703! More wood! Less wood!) The thing is: if I were just going for one 'characterful' or 'Indie' sound... I'd be OK. But I always end up disappointed with how 'boxy' it sounds.

If my attempts at getting a 3-dish-er sound from samples fail, I'll re-visit this. I understand that the crowd here tends towards 'real' recordings.... and I respect that... but it's just not working out right now. I like the control VDrums will give me. Just gotta get past that little speed bump: THE SOUND.

If anyone has any tips on improving sampled drums? (making them sound a bit more 'blended', 'glued', '3d' (pick the adjective of yer choice)? I'm -all- ears. So far? Superior sounds kinda 'Metal'... and not in a good way. What I -want- is more Bonham or 80's Omar Hakim (Let's Dance).

Cheers,

---JC

[MoreSpaceEcho]

you could try playing the samples out of your monitors and recording some room sound, add a bit of that back in. worth a try.

also try rolling some high end off the samples. maybe a bunch. that might help them sound more natural. and/or just find some different samples.

[trodden]

*weeps*

No.. no.. no.. no..

It'll be ok. I'm one as well. Its a tough world out there with people telling you how it supposed to be done and you doing it on your own.

I'm gonna turn up your cans real loud so you can hear the compressor working with your kick drum 'kay?

[Suntower]

Why does this feel like one of those parties at my house where I go out for a few minutes, come back and... it's no longer my party.

Anyhoo... this gives me a really good idea. The guy who designed my house had absolutely no sense for studio design.

So my 'recording rooms' are crappy bedrooms. And the kitchen/dining room is this large wood floor expanse that sounds great.

In fact, what I often do is record -key- things in there. But the point I want to get to is a solution where I can leave the drums set up 24/7 and just wail away when I need to and make usable tracks. IOW: I -hate- to make it into a 'studio' where I have to do all the set up.

Sorry for the long windedness... OK, I have digital and audio lines that run under the house to the dining room. So... I'm thinking I set up some speakers and mics in there and 're-amp' it.

Maybe it's a silly idea for such a full-range sound. But I've used it with guitars and bass and it's worked well.

THANKS!

---JC

*weeps*

No.. no.. no.. no..

It'll be ok. I'm one as well. Its a tough world out there with people telling you how it supposed to be done and you doing it on your own.

I'm gonna turn up your cans real loud so you can hear the compressor working with your kick drum 'kay?

[drumsound]

Why does this feel like one of those parties at my house where I go out for a few minutes, come back and... it's no longer my party.

Anyhoo... this gives me a really good idea. The guy who designed my house had absolutely no sense for studio design.

So my 'recording rooms' are crappy bedrooms. And the kitchen/dining room is this large wood floor expanse that sounds great.

In fact, what I often do is record -key- things in there. But the point I want to get to is a solution where I can leave the drums set up 24/7 and just wail away when I need to and make usable tracks. IOW: I -hate- to make it into a 'studio' where I have to do all the set up.

Sorry for the long windedness... OK, I have digital and audio lines that run under the house to the dining room. So... I'm thinking I set up some speakers and mics in there and 're-amp' it.

Maybe it's a silly idea for such a full-range sound. But I've used it with guitars and bass and it's worked well.

THANKS!

---JC
/quote]
I think this is a good idea for tracks you've already recorded.

I'd also like to point out that drums are pretty portable. I tear mine down and bring them to shitty clubs from here in Illinois to NYC (though it's been many years since I've played out of state). Is it not possible to move the drums to the good sounding rooms for tracking, and include room mics as part of the process?

[Suntower]

This sounds really prissy, but I'm -done- with setting up most -anything-. Maybe it's middle-age ADHD. But I get an idea, if it takes me more than 5 minutes to get it down, I go do something else.

So I leave the kit set up. I spent a -ton- of time getting it to sound as decent as it could. Now I'm leaving the VDrums up and liking 'em more and more.

I'd feel guiltier about all this, but a couple of the local studios I play in, the engineers go APESHIT if you move their fave mic setup even a cm. So obviously I'm not the only one who has to work to get a decent sound.

Cheers,

---JC

I'd also like to point out that drums are pretty portable. I tear mine down and bring them to shitty clubs from here in Illinois to NYC (though it's been many years since I've played out of state). Is it not possible to move the drums to the good sounding rooms for tracking, and include room mics as part of the process?

[jgimbel]

I'd feel guiltier about all this, but a couple of the local studios I play in, the engineers go APESHIT if you move their fave mic setup even a cm. So obviously I'm not the only one who has to work to get a decent sound.

That is a very precarious position to put oneself in. And a sure sign of a place I wouldn't want to work.

I used to be like that myself. Realizing that a part of being good at what I do is that I know the ins and outs more than simply trial and error and trying to freeze the results forever marked a real turning point for my recording path. But there is a difference between recording groups as a studio, making sure every project, every song is attended to with careful detail, and setting up to be able to record ones own ideas as more of a songwriter's position. I can understand ceding to the temptation if it's for getting ideas down quick. But a professional studio? That's a big no go for me.

[Suntower]

I kid you not...

I walk into their 'big room' last Tuesday. The band I'm with wanted to rehearse and this was the only empty room. A fully mic'd kit is there. I move one of the boom mics about 4" to the left because it was over a shelf where I wanted to put my coffee.

The other band members are -gaping- open mouthed in horror. And I'm like "What?" They were -terrified- of what 'Bryan' was gonna do when he got back. Maybe it's because I'm too old, but I felt like... if Bryan is too stupid not to double-book the rehearsal room, or to leave tape marks, or even a -note- "Please Don't Touch"? Fuck him. The artist I was working with paid to use the room to rehearse.

But that's how picky some people get about these things. I think it's from reading too many books where the engineer moves the mic 1/8" and SOLID GOLD, BABY!

Rant Off.

Cheers,

--JC

I'd feel guiltier about all this, but a couple of the local studios I play in, the engineers go APESHIT if you move their fave mic setup even a cm. So obviously I'm not the only one who has to work to get a decent sound.

That is a very precarious position to put oneself in. And a sure sign of a place I wouldn't want to work.

I used to be like that myself. Realizing that a part of being good at what I do is that I know the ins and outs more than simply trial and error and trying to freeze the results forever marked a real turning point for my recording path. But there is a difference between recording groups as a studio, making sure every project, every song is attended to with careful detail, and setting up to be able to record ones own ideas as more of a songwriter's position. I can understand ceding to the temptation if it's for getting ideas down quick. But a professional studio? That's a big no go for me.

[Gregg Juke]

I'd like to post a counter-rant, but I'm too tired.

Just an FYI from a different perspective-- Your freaking COFFEE is not more important than the mikes in that room that you were borrowing/renting to rehearse in. Who knows whose session you just monked-up? Yes, he can move the microphone back. But that 1/8" has been proven _over and over_ to be (sometimes drastically) meaningful in terms of changes in sound, and if there's an album client in there trying to get a consistent sound from track to track...

GJ

[Nick Sevilla]

I kid you not...
I walk into their 'big room' last Tuesday. The band I'm with wanted to rehearse and this was the only empty room. A fully mic'd kit is there. I move one of the boom mics about 4" to the left because it was over a shelf where I wanted to put my coffee.

Remind me to never ever work with you as long as I live.

Cheers

[jgimbel]

Yeah an already miced up kit during recording is a little different. In all honesty I would never move a mic that was set up my someone else to record me. Sometimes drummers here move a mic a little between takes and unfortunately it makes a huge difference. But what I was referring to is people who set up one time ever and try to keep it that way forever. If a drummer is set up here and I've got them miced up and sounding great, I want those mics to stay exactly where I put them to keep it sounding great. But I do this setting up from scratch every single time. If nothing else it keeps me relying on my ears.

Granted, he shouldn't have another band coming in if he's set up for recording and needs to keep it that way, but I wouldn't touch the mics regardless.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

if they're not your mics, you should never move one without asking first. Studio Etiquette 101.

[Suntower]

Sorry you feel that way. I get 'Studio Etiquette'. I over-simplified the story and made myself look like a rube. But regardless...

To -me- as a lowly musician... if it matters that much, the engineer/owner shouldn't rent the room out for open rehearsals during the times when the 'big band' is away.

...or at least put up a note... or -something- rather than having an unspoken DON"T TOUCH ANYTHING OR I WILL BE DISPLEASED attitude. If someone accidentally moves something? Oops. No big deal. You took their money, so don't complain so much. They deserve a welcoming/relaxed space at your hotel as well.

YMMV

---JC

I kid you not...
I walk into their 'big room' last Tuesday. The band I'm with wanted to rehearse and this was the only empty room. A fully mic'd kit is there. I move one of the boom mics about 4" to the left because it was over a shelf where I wanted to put my coffee.

Remind me to never ever work with you as long as I live.

Cheers

[Nick Sevilla]

Sorry you feel that way. I get 'Studio Etiquette'. I over-simplified the story and made myself look like a rube. But regardless...

To -me- as a lowly musician... if it matters that much, the engineer/owner shouldn't rent the room out for open rehearsals during the times when the 'big band' is away

Hi Suntower.

Have you ever been taught a little something called respect for other people? How about respect for other peoples' stuff? I know you know because you claim to be an old person, so I know someone in your life hopefully taught you to be respectful of others. If you did not get that sort of education, then I feel sorry for you.

The fact that you knew that rule of not touching a mic setup and doing it anyway, tells me you do not respect much about anything. Blaming your behavior on someone else is also a big sign of not respecting others.

And that is not cool, man. At least not in my book. Would you like it if someone did this to you? If you say no, then you truly are a sad human being because you also show no self respect. Sad.