Digital Delay with lots of headroom

[Matt C.]

Anyone have a recommendation for a digital delay rack box that sounds reasonably clean and can handle high input levels? not looking for an "effect", i just need a solid line delay for doing time alignment, moving room mics around in time, etc. I love my effectron but the input clips too easily. hoping to get something on the cheap side, and I'd also be willing to try DIYing it if it's not super tough.

thanks

[ott0bot]

not an effectron!

See if you can demo a TC Electronic M-One XL:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MOneXL

or

the D-two is the delay only unit that has some more advanced functions:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audi ... -tap-delay

both units are clean, quiet, decent head room, 24 bit with digital I/O. I've been happy using both units at the studio I interned at

[Marc Alan Goodman]

"cheap" and "headroom" don't usually go hand in hand, but you can occasionally find a Lex PCM41 for a song.

[rhythm ranch]

Used Roland SDE-1000.

They're cheap on eBay and you can adjust the delay time from 0-10ms in .1ms steps.

[Jim Williams]

You sure don't need more headroom, you really need more dynamic range. IOW, you need a quiet delay so the noise won't eat you up. Signal levels on effects returns are typically 10~15 db below the program material so you don't need a delay with + 27 dbu outputs. You do need lower noise so it isn't heard. For time alignment, a delay with low phase shift oversampling converters will allow better time alignment as the extra 2000+ degrees of phase shift from older delays will never let you line stuff up.

Any modern low cost delay will do. I use Lexicon MPX100's here, I got them super cheap. 24 bits means low background noise. They also have that unique 'echo' function that behaves like a tape delay sans tape noise. An Effectron will always be noisy and an old PCM42 at 8 bits also has excessive hiss in comparison.

You do have adjustable delay but there is no display, use the MPX500 or similar for that. It's important you go with a 24 bit delay to avoid signal degradation of the delayed signal, 16 bit stuff usually will sound grainy.

[KennyLusk]

I use the MPX100 also. It's super clean, 24 bit, quiet, easy to use, and I love the "special effects" on this one that blend echo and reverb. Very useful for critical stuff like solo native american flutes.

Like Jim said, the 16 bit stuff is a little grainy and a little muddy by comparison. I use my 16 bit hardware FX mostly for guitar work. And yes, of course, those boxes are a lot more noisy too.

[Matt C.]

thanks for the suggestions. just to clarify, I'm hoping to be able to use this delay in line on the way to tape. the signal chain would be preamp-->delay-->tape machine. so ideally I want something that could handle that, even if I am hitting the tape hard. is getting that much headroom out of a delay box too much to ask? I do have one of those MPX100s that I could use on an insert during mixing, but I'd like to be able to do this on the way in.

[KennyLusk]

The MPX100 is fine to use on the way in, I've used it several times like that for flutes and BG vox.

No problems with the chain you're describing either. I've gone from EHX 12AY7 tube pre straight to the MPX and from the MPX to my DAW or mixer. The EHX pre requires a balanced connection so I do use a Txformer adapter (little IMP) to accomplish that. Your pre's may not be so fussy.

[Marc Alan Goodman]

Nice one! Gotta keep my eyes peeled for one of those Lex's.

[Jim Williams]

Keep in mind that these are + - 5 volt powered devices so their output levels are limited to about +8 dbu. If you need more, follow it up with a line amp or use a quality balanced DAC on the digital outputs. Any decent pro level DAC will allow it to do +20dbu or so.

Input levels are also limited as there is gain. I removed the gain set surface mount resistors from the inverting opamp input to ground, pin's 2 and 6. Now it runs at unity gain so I can set the input levels at 1 o'clock with a + 4 dbu feed from my console. These are excellent delays that play nice with my Bricasti M7.

[Matt C.]

If you need more, follow it up with a line amp

I think this is what I'll end up doing. after doing some more tests, the MPX100 almost has enough headroom, but will definitely clip if I'm trying to send a hot signal to tape. the only other downside to the MPX100 is it's hard to dial in very small adjustments to a short delay, since half a rotation of the knob represents something like 0s to 5.5s. that's why I was originally hoping the effectron would work for this, since the delay is both continuously variable and can be set for such a small range (1ms-4ms).

[Sean Sullivan]

I wonder, since it has a display, the MPX500 would be a better option? I see them for around $100 used all the time...

[KennyLusk]

I wonder, since it has a display, the MPX500 would be a better option? I see them for around $100 used all the time...

Totally depends on how much programming you want to do. Some people want nothing to do with being able to drill down into a menu and tweak. I love that myself. Some just want a few knobs, something that's not so complicated - that's the MPX100.

[brew]

Headroom is simple to compare. Is it more or less? If it has an input trim, it should not even matter. Why not just buy a 10 dB inline pad and keep using what you have?

If you're going to tape, you don't need more than 20 dBu out, because tape saturates before then anyway.

For instance the MPX100 everyone is recommending--I don't know why, have they looked at the specs? It's +8 dBu out, which means it's probably the same going in. That's pretty weak on headroom and output levels, since most mic pre's will be >+26 dBu out.

[Jim Williams]

Input levels are limited to about + 8 dbu on these MXP100/110's. This is because of the power rails. Older designs like the LXP series allow higher input levels as the input pot is the first thing the input sees and that can be attenuated. In the MPX series you hit an opamp first so you can't drive the snot out of these. That's why they clip easily if you don't remove those input gain boosting resistors. Do that and it's well behaved. Dynamic range is good on these as they are 24 bits. You just need to observe proper input levels.

Some with less than adjustable systems can jack a -10 db pad in front, I simply reduce the master aux send levels to about +4dbu max, it likes that.
Noise is low so I can 'up' the return levels to anything I like, then again, my system here is analog based without those nagging DAW's hanging around.

I find computers to be excellent targets for an M4 carbine when out in the desert here.