Multipurpose LDC pair with a vibe? Low end ribbons?

[Nick Sevilla]

Also, keep in mind that 414's have been around a long time, and evolved considerably. Not all 414's are similar.

A B-ULS is a pretty nice, somewhat colored mic. I just did a record with these on overheads, and was very happy with the sound.

A TL or TL-II, or the newer XL_ mics are more clinical. They don't excite me nearly as much. I'd just as soon use an AT4050.

I own a pair of 414 BULS

Love them

[ott0bot]

so...it sounds like despite any recommendations you know what you want and feel it will yield the results you are looking for. my only thought is...go with your gut, save you pennies and get a first class mic.

you may not be able to get a pair, but put the $1000 towards big mic.

look for a vintage Microtek Gefell UM70s. muti-pattern, transformer induced "vibe" and it kills in all the things you mentioned. I have a pair of newer, transformerless umt70s, which I like better because they are a bit more transparent.

maybe a Miktek c7. heard a lot of good about this, but haven't had the opportunity to test it out. it even has an internal switch to boost the gain before the transformer to induce more saturation.

another newer option is the Lauten Audio Clarion. similar to the C7, but I've let to try that too. from the reviews, it may have a bit punch in the low mids.

also, there is a new muli-pattern Mojave 301fet. you already now how that sounds.

if you want a u67...you got to get some more green together.

now, if you are using the stock pre on an 003...it's not going to be magic. those are notoriously anemic and smeary...plus no head room. uou finally get signal at 6 oclock, then its too loud. I use mine occasionally...but usually for scratch tracks. getting a decent pre to get a more adequate gain will help you hear the difference in the mics. probably cost you another 600-1000 though!

[alexevansohio]

Well, lots to think about from these latest replies.

In terms of the mixing related comments, I guess I should have phrased it better- my mixes aren't unexciting persay, but they're lacking the tube/transformer color that I'm finding in mixes from larger studios with great mic lockers, console, and outboard. As an intern and a musician, I've worked in a local studio with Neve and API pres and old tube Neumanns and all that jazz, and found that the raw tracks we did there sounding awesome right off the bat, and made mixing, even just with stock PT8 plugins, a total breeze. Comparatively, the tracking I've done at home/on location with my current mics and 003 pres, I can get a solid, exciting sound, but it doesn't have the same harmonic distortion or 'warmth'/color to the sound as what we tracked in that studio, and I have to spend a lot more time mixing to get it sounding close I want it.

For this reason, I'd really like to start picking up some gear that will add that more colored sound to what I'm tracking. Due to budget restraints, I can't afford to spend all that much, so I'm looking for options that will give me a professional, useable, colorful at a fairly good price. I'm planning on picking up a pair of Rupert Neve Designs pres and building a pair of CAPI pres, so that should give me color on the preamp front.

While I do acknowledge all of the C414 recommendations, and will try to demo them if I can, they don't seem to be a very commonly used mic with engineers that I admire or on albums that I find myself coming back to again and again. Much more often, I find these engineers using U47s (both tube and FET), U67s, various dynamics, and ribbons. They seem to use Tube LDCs on everything from overheads to piano to vocals to strings. Clearly, a U67 pair would be way, way out of my price range, but I'm really looking for a similar midforward, warm sounding mic that works all over the place. I found plans on GroupDIY for a U67-type mic, which may be a good option. My interest in the OktavaMod mics is solely based on the fact that they are described as Neumann-esque and warm quite often.

I don't mean to come off as ignoring the advice of those recommending very transparent mics, but I'm really unsure that transparent is the answer for what I'm looking for. I really appreciate all of your responses.

ott0bot- your recommendations look awesome. I've been wishing for a pair of UM70's for a while- they seem like excellent mics. I know a friend with the C7 who totally loves it and uses it all over the place. I may see if I can go visit him and try it out.

It seems that what I'm looking for may be out of my price range, but I'll keep looking.

Thanks again!

[alexevansohio]

[ott0bot]

cool. I was kinda thinking you already knew what you wanted, but just testing the waters to see what else is out there. I know you weren't dismissing the suggestions, didn't mean to accuse you of that.

it's funny though, one of my best recordings was done with a Mackie 32.8 with a 002 and an Alesis hd24 on the lightpipe. it was in a gorgeous, mid 70's built, orchestra room, with a killer band...so I don't always care what the gear is, if the space is nice and the band is solid..I'll make due. the piano tracks have vibe for days, with just a pair of studio project c4's and an at4050 in omni for the room.

that being said, having good gear that you won't grow out of is always good. Neve & Neumann probably won't go out of style. I'm good with UA & Gefell too.

[aamicrophones]

Hi Alex, the CM87 is a class "A" fet microphone with a tranformer coupled output having a U87 like response curve.

I increased the headroom of the circuit in the CM87 by 14db over the original U87 while still keeping it class "A" transformer coupled (more musical harmonic distortion when used in high SPL situations). The CM87 can be used as drum overheads, in front of guitar/bass amps plus on vocals and acoustic instruments.

The Stellar is a great buy for the money but it is a bit more vintage sounding. The circuit is a very traditional single stage plate output circuit and it gets a bit "choked" with the 6.5:1 ratio transformer. Especially when you put it in high SPL situations like over a drum kit.

We use the same body and capsule in our CM47 but have improved the circuit with a 2 stage circuit somewhat like what Bill Putnam did in the output stage of the LA2.

The CM47 gets great reviews on piano, vocals, over drums and in front of guitar amps but a pair would be slightly above your budget.

Also, with the Neve preamp the difference between a tube and solid stage microphone (class "A" circuitry) is less audible.

Cheers, Dave Thomas
www.aamicrophones.com

Hey all,

I don't post over here too often, but I'm getting a bit sick of the negativity on Gearslutz, and have always found the members of the TapeOp forum to be really informative and helpful. Hopefully you guys can help out with this query.

This summer, I'm hoping to start doing freelance work on a bit of a more regular basis. I'm interning in one of the bigger studios in my city (The Monastery in Cincinnati, OH), and doing a fair amount of live sound work, and would really love to start tracking more regularly.

I'm working right now on getting my gear in order to be tracking a variety of projects fairly regular, both in a mobile setting or in a rented studio setting. Right now I have a 003, a few decent mid/low end mics (MK012s, 57s, AT3035, etc), and a pretty solid monitoring/headphone system. I'm running ProTools and Logic on a MacBook. In the next few months I will hopefully be building a couple CAPI preamps and buying a pair of Neve 511s, so I'll have some options in terms of pres.

I'd really like to get a versatile pair of large diaphragm condensers. My Oktavas sound awesome on a lot of stuff, but I could use some LDCs for variety and for a little different sound. The LDCs will be used on everything from vocals to overheads to strings to piano. I love the Oktavas on acoustic and piano, so I'll probably keep using them there, but it would still be nice to have options. I tend to go for big, natural, vintage-y sounding things- I really love the work Phil Ek did with Fleet Foxes, totally dig the last Arcade Fire album, etc.

C414s seem to be the stock answer for versatile LDCs, but I can't decide if they're too transparent for what I'm looking for. I've used the AT4050 with API pres in the past and dug it. I've also heard good things about the OktavaMod mics and the Shure KSM series as good mid-level LDCs. A while back someone offered to sell me a pair of Advanced Audio CM87's, which seemed cool. I've even been looking at the Stellar tube mics, though I don't know if they'd be versatile? I'd really like to stay in the 'around $1000' area for the pair. Obviously less would be nice, but I wouldn't be totally against going a little over.

I'm also interested in getting my first ribbon mic (or pair of ribbons maybe). I don't have as much cash for this, so any good options in ribbons for around $300 or less?

Thanks so much for your help,

Alex

[alexevansohio]

Hi Alex, the CM87 is a class "A" fet microphone with a tranformer coupled output having a U87 like response curve.

I increased the headroom of the circuit in the CM87 by 14db over the original U87 while still keeping it class "A" transformer coupled (more musical harmonic distortion when used in high SPL situations). The CM87 can be used as drum overheads, in front of guitar/bass amps plus on vocals and acoustic instruments.

The Stellar is a great buy for the money but it is a bit more vintage sounding. The circuit is a very traditional single stage plate output circuit and it gets a bit "choked" with the 6.5:1 ratio transformer. Especially when you put it in high SPL situations like over a drum kit.

We use the same body and capsule in our CM47 but have improved the circuit with a 2 stage circuit somewhat like what Bill Putnam did in the output stage of the LA2.

The CM47 gets great reviews on piano, vocals, over drums and in front of guitar amps but a pair would be slightly above your budget.

Also, with the Neve preamp the difference between a tube and solid stage microphone (class "A" circuitry) is less audible.

Cheers, Dave Thomas
www.aamicrophones.com

[/quote]

Hey Dave,

Thanks so much for the response! I've been admiring your microphones from afar for a couple years now.

The CM87s look like a really great option, especially as they are multipattern and versatile but not as transparent as C414s. The Stellars too look like an interesting option, but it does seem like there have to be some corners cut to get the mics at that price, and I'd rather spend the money on your CM47 or a pair of Mojave or Beezneez mics and have something that will last for a while.

I definitely think the addition of good transformer pres will really help to get the warmth that I'm looking for. I'm also checking out the possibility of getting an 8 track 1/2" or 1" machine, but that's probably a little far off.

I think at this point its probably between the CM87s and the MK219s+mods. I'd love to do the CM47s, but it really depends on how much work I get this summer- I definitely can't afford that pair right now.

[drumsound]

It seems like you know what tones you're looking for and there are plenty of suggestions here. I'd add AT 4047s to the list as well. Used they are quite affordable. They have a transformer, and a pad and lo cut. If you went new, you could get the multi pattern version.

I'm really jonsing for some AA mics as well...Ah money, you evil bastard.

[honkyjonk]

there's always this route, if you have the time to build/learn: http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=49675.0

[losthighway]

used pair of Mojave ma201 fet - not multi pattern, but maybe a little more vibe-action. but again...will always be useful. I can't hunk of a source these dont flatter. these just make drums sound right in a world of wrong.

I got a 301 fet a few months ago and have been liking it enough to want to buy a second and make it a pair. I haven't done much with it drum-wise yet. How are you liking yours, overheads? Or are you putting them in close on toms?


Also, back to the OP- A lot of people like the Blue Mouse as a vibey, but versatile LDC. I've been thinking about checking one of those out, one of these days.

[ott0bot]

used pair of Mojave ma201 fet - not multi pattern, but maybe a little more vibe-action. but again...will always be useful. I can't hunk of a source these dont flatter. these just make drums sound right in a world of wrong.

I got a 301 fet a few months ago and have been liking it enough to want to buy a second and make it a pair. I haven't done much with it drum-wise yet. How are you liking yours, overheads? Or are you putting them in close.

I don't own one, but was able to use one a while back. used it with a bunch of stuff. made a great vocal mic, great on a load guitar amp, great on a big floor Tom back beat overdub. it wasn't usually right up close...but with the pad it could make that happen. it just sounded like a way more expensive mic. super accurate, without all that high-end bump garbage.

[sears]

The Chameleon Labs tube SDCs come with LDC heads now that switch between cardioid and omni. I have a couple of those and a 414 BULS and they're both awesome and different. They both sound like a record. The 414 like late 70s Dylan and the TS1 like the Emmanuelle soundtrack. I am nowhere near skillful enough to get the most out of either. Then I've got a Blueberry which sounds more like Boyz II Men.

[CedarSound]

Maybe it's just me, but when I think of vibey and versatile at the same time, I like me some large diaphram dynamics... maybe a pair of sm7s or an MD421 or an RE20? Smoother than a condenser, but still works on a lot of different stuff.. may be a nice compliment to the mics you already have.. You'll need a pre with lots of gain, of course, but LDDs tend to get me in the ballpark for what I like to hear.. seem to take eq well without getting harsh too...

My two cents..

[ott0bot]

Maybe it's just me, but when I think of vibey and versatile at the same time, I like me some large diaphram dynamics... maybe a pair of sm7s or an MD421 or an RE20? Smoother than a condenser, but still works on a lot of different stuff.. may be a nice compliment to the mics you already have.. You'll need a pre with lots of gain, of course, but LDDs tend to get me in the ballpark for what I like to hear.. seem to take eq well without getting harsh too...

My two cents..

you could get a pair of large dynamics and a dual cloud lifter or a pair of the triton in-line boosters and come in way under budget. if you go that route I'd recommend the beyer m88 or md 421's.