Mastering - why does so much of it suck?

[MoreSpaceEcho]

personally i wouldn't mind if we went back to late 80s standards, where no one even bothered with a limiter on the master. i really like how unlimited mixes pull you in as a listener, as opposed to pushing everything forward with the limiter.

that's pretty unlikely though. anyway, here's a few stupidly loud records i totally love:

autolux-future perfect

pretty sure this showed up at mastering already pretty maxed out, but it still sounds like steven marcussen clipped his converters about 6db more than was really necessary. super crunchy. i should really hate it, but it's been a favorite since the first spin.

dead meadow-feathers

from the first note it's obvious this thing is completely mushed...but...how? how did greg calbi get this so comically loud and yet it's totally smooth and pleasant to listen to? i suppose he is greg calbi...

sleep-dopesmoker

there's a few spots on this where the low end seems to just totally overwhelm the limiter, which in most cases would be Very Bad Indeed, but on this record it just adds to the awesome and makes everything all chewy.

typing this, i realize that none of these records are at all bright, and i think that has a lot to do with why they can be as loud as they are and still be nice to listen to.

[vvv]

chris brokaw's new record is refreshingly uncrushed.

and there's always chinese democracy!

I'm a big Brokaw fan (loved the band, Come, and liked him with Wynn) - thanx for the heads up.

[ott0bot]

chris brokaw's new record is refreshingly uncrushed.

and there's always chinese democracy!

I'm a big Brokaw fan (loved the band, Come, and liked him with Wynn) - thanx for the heads up.

Have you heard either of the Pullman releases? very solid instrumental guitar ensemble with Brokaw, Bundy K Brown, Doug McCombs, and Curtis Harvey (plus some guests). sure they were recorded around 2000, so albums were just starting to have this issue, but they are beautiful dynamic records.

the reason I mention them, aside from Brokaw, is that when the come on my iPod on shuffle, I reach to turn them up, but stop and rememer "they'll get loud when they need to."

[vvv]

Embare-arsed to say, "no" because I believe they have a Chicago connection.

EDIT: looked it up, yep, Thrill Jockey, and McCombs is from a local fave of mine, 11th Dream Day.

[fossiltooth]

personally i wouldn't mind if we went back to late 80s standards, where no one even bothered with a limiter on the master. i really like how unlimited mixes pull you in as a listener, as opposed to pushing everything forward with the limiter.

that's pretty unlikely though. anyway, here's a few stupidly loud records i totally love:

autolux-future perfect

pretty sure this showed up at mastering already pretty maxed out, but it still sounds like steven marcussen clipped his converters about 6db more than was really necessary. super crunchy. i should really hate it, but it's been a favorite since the first spin.

dead meadow-feathers

from the first note it's obvious this thing is completely mushed...but...how? how did greg calbi get this so comically loud and yet it's totally smooth and pleasant to listen to? i suppose he is greg calbi...

sleep-dopesmoker

there's a few spots on this where the low end seems to just totally overwhelm the limiter, which in most cases would be Very Bad Indeed, but on this record it just adds to the awesome and makes everything all chewy.

typing this, i realize that none of these records are at all bright, and i think that has a lot to do with why they can be as loud as they are and still be nice to listen to.

Totally. My favorite super loud masters (my own or anyone else's) tend not to be very bright.

I know what you mean about the music pushing forward or inviting the listener in, too.

I get to do the latter often, and it really does work for a lot of material. Sometimes the limiter is just there to do .5db of reduction. More as a safety than anything.

Here's the thing that really interests me: Music always changes in response to the medium. In a world where all albums are intelligently and transparently level-matched, will the most dynamic, masters be the ones that leap out the most?

That's just the way it works. When level-matching is based on RMS, the loudest moments we hear will likely be on the most dynamic masters. So, the loudest parts of a Prokofiev symphony could be far louder than a Lil Wayne record. Kind of cool, right?

[drumsound]

. So, the loudest parts of a Prokofiev symphony could be far louder than a Lil Wayne record. Kind of cool, right?

Kudos for name checking Prokofiev and Lil Wayne in the same sentence.

[ott0bot]

. So, the loudest parts of a Prokofiev symphony could be far louder than a Lil Wayne record. Kind of cool, right?

....for now. the latest trend in classical recording is putting a BBE sonic maximizer on the mix bus. the dude playing the 4th chair clarient kept feeling like he wasn't getting as much attention as the fella playing the obnoxious flugelhorn melody. he took a stand and everything went up in flames.

[fossiltooth]

. So, the loudest parts of a Prokofiev symphony could be far louder than a Lil Wayne record. Kind of cool, right?

....for now. the latest trend in classical recording is putting a BBE sonic maximizer on the mix bus. the dude playing the 4th chair clarient kept feeling like he wasn't getting as much attention as the fella playing the obnoxious flugelhorn melody. he took a stand and everything went up in flames.

I'm just waiting til they start putting the T-Pain effect on the sousaphone.

[Gregg Juke]

That's funny, otto; I wasn't aware of that trend.

I have an annual gig coming-up; I'm recording a classical concert this weekend. Last year, I almost did some editing on one section that repeated-- the pianist flubbed a bit, and I could easily have cut/copied/pasted. But my artificial notions of the purity of classical music prevented me.

Hmmm-- This year, maybe I'll edit and use the BBE...

GJ

[ott0bot]

you better Greg or all those camber music buffs with be hating on your weak-ass mixes that don't bump on their Bang-Olufsen bookshelfs.

[chris harris]

I MIXED AND MASTERED MY OWN RECORD!!! OH MY GAWD!!!!!! And, I MADE THE DIGITAL MASTERS LOUD AS FUCK AND REALLY CRISPY!!! Get a rope!!!

Sure, the masters I made for vinyl are much more reasonable in volume. But, they're still pretty in your face and loud.

It's what was appropriate for the type of music we're making. And, in the end, I'm sure that some people hate it and find it unlistenable. But, it's also the first record we've ever made that a label was excited enough about to invest their money in releasing it. And, we've had much, MUCH more positive reaction to this than anything else we ever did.

In the end, with your own music, you've got to make it sound how you want it to sound, knowing that not everyone will love it. In 2013, you can bet that most albums that are released sound how the band wants them to sound. I don't think that there are a ton of bands, especially in indie rock, that are being pressured to do something by nefarious bean counters in suits. If you don't like how a record sounds, blame the band/artist. Or, don't blame anyone. Just move on to another record. There are plenty of them out there.

Here's my ridiculously aggressive master of my own album. If you don't like it, that's ok. There are parts where things get really wildly extreme. There is some audible pumping at times. It's not for everyone. But, we love it. And, the label loves it. And, people are responding to it. So, we'll keep doing what makes us happy and not worry too much about trying to make everyone happy.

https://soundcloud.com/club-ac30/sets/d ... -transient

[MoreSpaceEcho]

sounds good man! ms mse will totally like this. i'm listening quietly on the bookshelves in my office, but the mastering seems fine, appropriate for the style.

i'm just finishing up my first solo record, i tried a million different ways of getting the level up, hated all of them, so it's just gonna have to be a quiet record. fuck it.

[Gregg Juke]

>>>>you better Greg or all those camber music buffs with be hating on your weak-ass mixes that don't bump on their Bang-Olufsen bookshelfs.<<<<

Now THAT would be an awesome "posse" to see-- sweater vests, corduroy elbow-patch blazers, brown wing-tip shoes, but with cheap sunglasses, _real diamond bling_, and British "Webley Automatics" with laser-sights, held sideways...

"Yeahh, bouy, Mozart in da-hey-ouse!"

GJ

[chris harris]

Thanks, MSE! I guess I should have noted that I'm not just some dude in a band running things through Ozone. I actually record and master records all the time, every day.

I still always recommend that my recording clients send out to other people for mastering. But, I don't put up much of a fight if they prefer to have me do it. I'm the one who built that trust. I'm confident with the tools I have. And, I kind of enjoy changing perspective and coming at it from a different place, and a different set of concerns. Even when I'm mastering stuff mixed by others, I'm doing my best to stay out of the way of their mixes and just pull it all together with a loudness and frequency spectrum that make sense for the album sequence.

Everyone always talks about gear, acoustics, and experience. What's mentioned less frequently is taste. And, I think that if you have good taste, and an understanding of the genre you're working in, you're miles ahead of the guys with all the gear.

I've honestly never had a bad experience with a mastering engineer. I've only worked with engineers who came highly recommended or who had rad credits. Maybe that's it? I've found every one that I've worked with to be first and foremost concerned with fidelity, and totally flexible and respectful of what I, or the artist wanted to hear from a master.

[fossiltooth]

In 2013, you can bet that most albums that are released sound how the band wants them to sound. I don't think that there are a ton of bands, especially in indie rock, that are being pressured to do something by nefarious bean counters in suits. If you don't like how a record sounds, blame the band/artist. Or, don't blame anyone. Just move on to another record. There are plenty of them out there.

YES. THIS.