synth keyboard controller recommendations requested

[markmazoo]

Greetings! I'm thinking about expanding my musical repertoire (have acoustic & electric & bass guitars & mics for vocals & harp(monica), by adding a MIDI synth Audjoo Helix (and/or other software synths like a grand piano synth) to my home-based DAW (Samplitude). I do have access to an upright piano but I'm in the basement and it's upstairs and it's tuned a bit too low, so its difficult to record (especially in key). I've used a minidisc recorder and transferred into my DAW but its just a hassel.

I don't think I need a full-bore hardware sythesizer keyboard that is self contained, although some I'm looking at fit this category. I think I want something with 37, 49, 61 keys so it will fit on my computer desk. Since I'm kind of new to piano and syths I don't want to by real spendy on the keyboard. I have looked at and am considering the following listed basically from cheapest to most expensive:
Acorn Masterkey 49 USB MIDI Controller keyboard $80 new
KORG Microkorg 37 MIDI Controller $80 new
Novation Xiosynth 25 $160 used
KORG microKorg synthesizer $200 used ( 37 keys, no USB; all MIDI connections, which would fit into my M-Audio Delta 1010 PCI interface)

Alesis Micron Synthesizer $200 used (37 keys)
Novation Xiosynth 49 $430 used (too expensive but like 49 keys)

I'm not too enthralled with the all the M-Audio keyboard controllers and synth keyboards as some contain lead in the paint (I think even on the key paint) and appear to not be too durable. How does AVID or whoever manufactures these in China now get away with using lead paint? These are most certainly used by kids as well as adults. Sorry I got off on a tangent.

Would appreciate comments on the above and your experiences good and bad and recommendations. Thanks......Mark

[plurgid]

Kinda depends on what you wanna do.

If you wanna play key parts that correspond to physical instruments (i.e. piano, clav, organ, etc), then you'll want one that has real-sized keys and you'll want at least 49 of them.

If you want some good synth sounds and a pretty solid midi controller, you pretty much can't go wrong with the microkorg. It has miniature toy-grade keys though. So it's a pain in the butt to play, but the built in sounds are top notch, plus you get a pretty awesome hardware vocoder too, and of course you could midi it up to some bigger keys. Very versatile, and small ... I keep one on my desk behind my qwerty keyboard ... it's great for tweeking synth sounds and triggering samples and stuff, but not so great for playing parts.

If you want just a dedicated controller with no sounds, I'd suggest something like the Akai MPK49 ... solid build quality, decent software and support.

I'd highly recommend steering well clear of anything made by CME. I unfortunately invested some dough in one of their UF 61 controllers a while back it looked like a bargain but it wasn't ... nothing but bugs, abysmal support ... noisy ass controller, values jump all over the place ... it's a piece of junk basically, that I dumped too much money into to get rid of, so I'm stuck with it.

[markmazoo]

Thanks plurgid.

I agree on the CME stuff..it seems too good to be true, but looks very tempting. Sorry you got stuck.

I like the idea of the Akai MPK49 as a dedicated controller; thats what I was going for with the very simple Acorn Masterkey 49 USB MIDI Controller keyboard $80 new, but nobody has an opinion/familiarity on/with it.

Also like the idea of the microKorg (are you referring to the standard older one or the XL, which has USB?) expecially midi'd to some bigger keys, if they are not too expensive. Have any suggestions for some bigger keys in a variety of prices (low to medium)?

Just discovered the Akai MINIAK which seems comparable to the microKorg but with full sized keys. Any experience/thoughts on the MINIAK?

Other TapeOpers have any input?

Thanks.

[plurgid]

the microkorg I have is the original version (no USB, but has midi-out). I got one of these cheapie USB->MIDI adapters for it, and it functions brilliantly as a synth and as a midi controller.

http://www.amazon.com/E-Mu-Xmidi-1X1-MI ... 484&sr=8-2

Also there's a free software editor you can download from the korg site ... it's a pretty badass synth for how cheap it is.

Haven't ever messed with a MINIAK. As far as cheap, big keys ... honestly anything with a midi out will do, you might score something on craigslist better than what you'd get new. M-Audio makes some ridiculously cheap keys ... of course, ridiculously cheap often translates into the end product too

[kslight]

I'm not too enthralled with the all the M-Audio keyboard controllers and synth keyboards as some contain lead in the paint (I think even on the key paint) and appear to not be too durable. How does AVID or whoever manufactures these in China now get away with using lead paint? These are most certainly used by kids as well as adults. Sorry I got off on a tangent.

Would appreciate comments on the above and your experiences good and bad and recommendations. Thanks......Mark

Do you have any sources to back up your comment about M Audio keyboard controllers and lead? Of all the complaints I've read about them, that isn't one of them.


Getting past that, the M Audio Venom is a steal when its on sale...for a decent hardware synth and cheap 49 key controller, with built in USB audio and midi interface. I got mine new from Amazon.com for like $167 a few months back.



I have an MPK25 sitting in the box that I've messed with a little, and it seems pretty decent. I wouldn't personally buy a 25 key keyboard (this isn't mine), but I imagine that the larger models are good too.



Obviously if money is concerned I would highly recommend picking up used...

[markmazoo]

I don't have any first-hand knowledge about this, but try our friend google and you'll find lots of info on this subject. Here is a link regarding lead in their products. http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=sup ... 72df1fc267
There is a warning sticker on the manual; actually hidden in the back of the manual from what I hear. There is a warning on the box of some keyboard controllers, notably the keystation 61es. I'm just going by what I read. Just my opinion, but I think that M-Audio is downplaying the lead issue with the statement in the above link. Read some of the comments on Amazon. Lead in paint becomes more easily absorbed say if a lead painted plastic part is broken. You are not supposed to bite or suck or teeth on painted window sills in old houses either. Could be a non-issue, but manufacturers don't have to use products with lead in them anymore..there are alternatives, even in printed circuit boards that all used to be soldered with lead solder.

Thanks for the rec on the Venom, I'll look into it.

[kslight]

Not that the internet is the most reliable source of information...but I couldn't really find any verifiable statements, thats why I asked for your sources...

For example, there's this post on KVR:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=309609

but that's really just people online talking back and forth,

And on Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/review/R11OTGYLRZ1HEK


I could be wrong, but I don't think M-Audio applying a warning label to their products means it contains lead based paint.


I'm not trying to argue with you, only trying to find facts to support your statements. I would have hoped to find an independent testing company's result or something to back it up, such as what you find for McDonald's glassware that has cobalt in it. To me it just looks like someone has wildly misinterpreted a warning label and spread an internet rumor. In the meantime, I would advise against ingesting any pro audio products, especially those made by M-Audio. If there is a indeed a problem with lead based paint in MIDI keyboards, I reckon that nearly all on the market would be affected, since its not like most companies make it themselves, and your best bet is to stick with...nylon string guitars.

[markmazoo]

I'll toast to not ingesting any pro audio products with a couple of those McDonalds glasses. Do those come with progressive lenses or just regular bi and tri focals?

[kslight]

I'll toast to not ingesting any pro audio products with a couple of those McDonalds glasses. Do those come with progressive lenses or just regular bi and tri focals?

Afraid neither, they were Shrek or something like that...drinking glasses. Don't toast with those.

[jgimbel]

I was looking at the Microkorg for a long time (and I've recorded at least two that clients have brought here, surprisingly great-sounding little synth) but I've got a MicroStation that'll be delivered this week, I'll let you know my thoughts on it. My situation is surprisingly similar, absurdly so - even the fact that I'm in a basement and I have an upright that's upstairs and sounds nice but isn't tuned exactly how I'd like right now, and I've done transferring from one thing to another. When I'm recording people other than myself I've ran long XLR runs up there and I just put another mic up there so they can speak to me and set up a talkback down here, and it works fine, but it can definitely be a pain.

I want to use the MicroStation for similar MIDI duties and am also not heavily into synth/keyboard stuff so didn't want to break the bank, but I've got a live project that is making it nearly necessary, so good time to knock it out. I'll post back here as soon as I've got more relevant information.

[apropos of nothing]

Avid/Digidesign/M-Audio are a conglomeration of corporations that all treated their customers like crap. Now that they're one big happy family, their customers are really treated like crap. In particular, I'm going to rip on M-Audio, whose stuff breaks one month after the warranty period. I do not like their products, and stay away from them. That's my opinion, and you do not have to share it.

I will just jump in and say that I really love the arpeggiator on my Micron. I like that it has full-size keys. Interface is pretty decent considering the size and compact nature thereof.

People also really like those Novation synths.

$.02.

[kayagum]

Unless you're eating the circuit board, I don't think you should worry too much about the warning label.

Calif Prop 65 warnings cover all sorts of substances, including aspirin, nicotine and "salted fish- Chinese Style" (I kid you not).

http://oehha.ca.gov/prop65/prop65_list/Newlist.html

And people wonder why the state of California has such high taxes and still is this close from going bankrupt....

[markmazoo]

Thanks for everyone's input. I now know I made a mistake mentioning the M-Audio lead rumor. I should have just said that I was ruling them out due to quality issues (or said nothing at all) and left it at that. (although I have been very happy with my Delta 1010 & Delta Omni I/O PCI interfaces, but they are ancient and don't have the moving parts of a midi controller). The M-Audio keyboard issue has somewhat taken the focus off my objective, which is to obtain opinions on the units I mention in my original post, as well as opinions on like units that are totally unknown to me. Sorry that I mentioned "lead" and M-Audio.

Hopefully you all will continue to provide your experiences and opinions. I'm still frozen with indecision, but it's mostly due to my unfamiliarity with synths in general, and deciding on paying between $80 and $400. I'll be interested in the thoughts on the Korg microStation (jgimbel) and appreciate the thumbs up for the Alesis Micron (apropos of nothing). I was mostly hoping that someone would jump in and say the Acorn Masterkey 49 was great, but no one seems to have heard of it but the 12 people commenting positively (probably mostly work at Acorn) on Amazon. So, I'm ruling that one out. I also know that I don't need one with drum pads as I have a drum set and a Zoom rhythmtrak 234 drum machine.

[Jed]

Find a used Ensoniq ESQ-1 or something in that family (SQ-80, etc.).

They are fantastic synths in their own right and make great midi controllers too. They can be found on Craigslist for less than $200. I got one for $125 a few years ago and will take it with me to the grave. It is that good.