Need a quality small format mixer for performing & recor

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touched1
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Need a quality small format mixer for performing & recor

Post by touched1 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:38 pm

Did a few searches, saw the sub $3k sidecar thread. My needs are similar but different.

I do electronic music, and some recording at home. I am good with my soundcards (Metric Halo), so I don't care about digital consoles right now.

What I'd like is the form and function of the old Mackie 1604, but higher quality and maybe with some character. Something I could do some dubbing with using external hardware. This would mainly have drum machines, synths, samplers and FX connected, that I'd be manipulating live. So the sturdier the better.

I'd love to keep it under $2000. Toft seems a little out of my reach, and not quite portable enough.

I just want
-16 channels with inserts
-Rack Mountable
-Simple EQ
-3 Aux sends
-Inserts
-Maybe a few subgroups would be nice...

That's it!

Suggestions appreciated!

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Post by snatchman » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:51 am

If you are using it basically for mixing and want some character, I'd consider a DDA" live" console..I had a "S" series ( the " M" series is very similar) and liked it very much..Simple and straight forward as you mentioned..Good luck..!

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Jeff White
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Post by Jeff White » Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:58 am

No subgroups, but the Allen and Heath MixWizard 16:3 seems like the ticket to ride.

I am in a similar boat right now. I want to move up from my Mackie Onyx 1220 (which I use to monitor through and is surprisingly great sounding) to something that I can mix on. I am getting a Tascam 38 in a few weeks (free/borrowed long-term from a friend) and I am going hybrid after years of trying to make the hop. I have determined that I need 20-24 channels with 4-8 subgroups. I wish that I could make a 16-channel A&H or older Soundcraft 200B work and not need to take it up a notch. *sigh*

Anyway...Allen and Heath MixWizard, Mackie Onyx stuff is definitely WAY nicer than the VLZ stuff, something Soundcraft?

Jeff
I record, mix, and master in my home studio, Ch?teau Blanco, and in various spaces in the Philly area. http://jeffwhiteaudio.com/

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Post by kayagum » Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:15 pm

Jeff, If you don't need A/D/A conversion, maybe a ZED 428 could fit your needs.

OP: maybe the recipe you need is a clean board, but cool external DI boxes to add the character you want, without having to spring for a $1000/channel preamp.
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Jeff White
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Post by Jeff White » Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:07 pm

kayagum wrote:Jeff, If you don't need A/D/A conversion, maybe a ZED 428 could fit your needs.
I have 16 channels of Metric Halo 2882 & BLack Lionized MOTU 828mk2 clocked by a Black Lion Microclock MK2. Solid. In my search last summer for small mixers that I could take on tour, I ended up with a ZED 10 and a Mackie Onyx. The Onyx absolutely sounds way better than the ZED. The ZED sounds thin in comparison. I kid you not. I was shocked. I put both of them in use as monitor mixers and the Onyx took the cake. Love that thing for what it is, just looking to upgrade to something...funkier.

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Post by touched1 » Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:18 pm

Thanks for the input guys. Nice to have people to kick ideas around with.

Need to do some more searching, the DDA stuff looks cool, but maybe a little too big for my needs?

Kayagum, you may be onto something with a clean board and additional outboard for character..

Jeff, thanks for chiming in. Yes, sounds like we are in a similar boat. Especially with the MH gear and all.

Onyx better than AH? Really? Would've never guessed!

Here is what I've found.

-Toft. Out of my price range. A little too big too.
-Midas 16 channel. Looks damn good, don't need the digital stuff, but would not turn it down. But Almost $1k more for the rack FW version?!?! Seems to be the best in the rackable 16 channel format.
-Allen & Heath. Might be my best bet for under $1000
-Mackie. Honestly I could limp along with a 1604 for under $100 until I really decide. I know them well and they work fine.
-Hill Multimix. Had one years ago, if someone gave me one now I'd use it. Might pay $50 for one...

That's what I've got... Keep the ideas coming.

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Post by Jim Williams » Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:01 am

DDA Interface, 16x4x2. If you can find one.
Soundcraft Delta 200, 16x4x2, I paid $550 for mine. I've not found nor worked on anything better. Not rack mountable, but small. The 8x4x2 is available in a rack case.
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Post by Jeff White » Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:44 am

Jim Williams wrote:DDA Interface, 16x4x2. If you can find one.
Soundcraft Delta 200, 16x4x2, I paid $550 for mine. I've not found nor worked on anything better. Not rack mountable, but small. The 8x4x2 is available in a rack case.
Jim, is the Delta 200 the same series as a Soundcraft 200B? I definitely have been looking at the 200B series Soundcrafts, but think that I need 24 channels instead of 16 for mixing with room for returns on faders, etc.

Jeff
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Post by Jeff White » Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:47 am

touched1 wrote: Jeff, thanks for chiming in. Yes, sounds like we are in a similar boat. Especially with the MH gear and all.

Onyx better than AH? Really? Would've never guessed!
I'm serious, I was also pretty shocked. It was a ZED 10 (non-FX version), and the Onyx is the 1220. I would describe the Onyx as "fuller and warmer" and the ZED 10 as "thinner with less headroom." I would consider getting a 24 channel Onyx board, but I feel like there has to be something out there with more vibe. I like the Soundcraft stuff since the channel strips are modular and readily available.

Jeff
I record, mix, and master in my home studio, Ch?teau Blanco, and in various spaces in the Philly area. http://jeffwhiteaudio.com/

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The Real MC
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Post by The Real MC » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:24 am

APB-Dynasonics ProRack H1020

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JWL
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Post by JWL » Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:56 pm

Big fan of the Mackie Onyx. I wish I could keep my Onyx 1620.... if there was a USB card option for it I'd keep it in a heartbeat.

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Post by touched1 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:25 pm

Thanks for the input guys.

Jeff, agreed on Soundcraft. Had some good experience with them in the past. But do they have a good rackable mixer?

Real MC, thank you. Had never heard of the APB line. I see nothing but high praise for that mixer in my searches. Glad you mentioned it!

Thanks for the input JWL. Good to know that Mackie still makes OK gear.

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Post by Snarl 12/8 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:20 pm

I've always wondered about the Crest rackmount mixers.

http://www.northernsound.net/Sales/mixe ... ixers.html <-- just for example, I have no affiliation.

I had a friend in college that had a Crest stereo PA amp that was really impressive, so I've always considered them a high-end company, but maybe they make a shitty mixer, you don't see them out in the wild much. A ton of features though.
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Post by Jim Williams » Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:57 am

[quote="Jeff White[/quote]

Jim, is the Delta 200 the same series as a Soundcraft 200B? I definitely have been looking at the 200B series Soundcrafts, but think that I need 24 channels instead of 16 for mixing with room for returns on faders, etc.

Jeff[/quote]

Not the same. The older 200 and 200B are usually fixed 4 band EQ, no phase reverse, no 100 hz filter. The front end is a somewhat dirty instrumentation amp design. You use the mic preamps for line in. All of that can be fixed but the Delta/Venue offers a true balanced line input that doesn't use the mic preamp.

The Delta also uses Soundcraft's balanced discrete bussing design. It has -90 db stereo crosstalk at 10k hz, best in the biz. Most of the rest mentioned here are 30 db more crosstalk, you can hear 30 db difference, can't you?
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Post by Jeff White » Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:15 am

Jim Williams wrote: Not the same. The older 200 and 200B are usually fixed 4 band EQ, no phase reverse, no 100 hz filter. The front end is a somewhat dirty instrumentation amp design. You use the mic preamps for line in. All of that can be fixed but the Delta/Venue offers a true balanced line input that doesn't use the mic preamp.

The Delta also uses Soundcraft's balanced discrete bussing design. It has -90 db stereo crosstalk at 10k hz, best in the biz. Most of the rest mentioned here are 30 db more crosstalk, you can hear 30 db difference, can't you?
Sweet, thanks for the information. I *just* passed on a 16 channel 200B, and now I am glad that I did. Delta stuff is definitely on my list. Need to save up for 24 channels.

Jeff
I record, mix, and master in my home studio, Ch?teau Blanco, and in various spaces in the Philly area. http://jeffwhiteaudio.com/

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